Is it me, or does any one else feel that some bikes in light weight should not be allowed, like the new BMW's. Air cooled or not, they are just too big and fast for a light weight class. the new Moto-St series considers it a heavy weight twin. I think in CCS it should be at least a middle weight, not a light weight. how does anyone else feel
Well I dont think SV650's should be allowed in thunderbike since that replaced heavyweight sportsman which was mainly older bikes that couldnt run as well with the new bikes.
It sucks having to race Buell's. I think they should be limited to Thunderbike and LWGP perhaps. They shouldnt be in LWSS or SB. 100HP vs most ss sv's 73 - 77HP is dumb. Feel the same about the BMW. It may be big, but it still has HP advantage. The new one definately shouldnt be a LW bike.
Quote from: Woofentino Pugrossi on August 18, 2006, 09:26:47 PM
Well I dont think SV650's should be allowed in thunderbike since that replaced heavyweight sportsman which was mainly older bikes that couldnt run as well with the new bikes.
Yeah, and now SV's have to compete against built to the gills BUELL's 115+ HP in Thunderbike
Well, the BMW doesn't make the power of a recent production 600 and doesn't it weigh about 150 pounds more than a 600?
And is there one rider that is capable of riding a BMW well? Or is it just "the bike"...
Given what I know, it's a LW bike. SV650's were faster than EX500's. Wasn't a reason to make them middleweights.
Yes it sucks. And my VFR750 isn't even legal for any of these classes mentioned (not until 3 years from now in Thunderbike), yet it has the worst power to weight ratio of just about anything. Even my Ultralight Superbike DR650 has a better power to weight ratio. If I could actually make a fluid-retaining bellypan I'd like to race it legally just for the hell of it, but not in the heavyweight or even middleweight classes.
With twins, which most lightweight are, the real advantage comes in torque not horsepower. I think forming the classes based on a number that is an average of the torque and horsepower-to-weight ratios would make for the most competitive and fair racing. Such a number is in parentheses below.
For the below specifications:
Manufacturer or commonly found dry weights. Tested or manufacturer provided HP and torque figures (generally on the conservative side).
BMW
419 lbs dry / 78 ft-lb = 5.37 lbs : 1 ft-lb
419 lbs dry / 101 HP = 4.14 lbs : 1 HP (4.755)
99-02 SV650
364 lbs dry / 43 ft-lb = 8.46 lbs : 1ft-lb
364 lbs dry / 68 HP = 5.35 lbs : 1 HP (6.905)
Buell XB9R
385 lbs dry / 70 ft-lb = 5.5 lbs : 1 ft-lb
385 lbs dry / 92 HP = 4.18 lbs : 1 HP (4.84)
VFR750
465 lbs dry / 44ft-lb = 10.56 lbs : 1 ft-lb
465 lbs dry / 85 HP = 5.47 lbs : 1 HP (5.515)
And for the hell of it.
GSXR600
355 lbs dry / 46ft-lb = 7.17 lbs : 1 ft-lb
355 lbs dry / 105 HP = 3.38 lbs : 1 HP (5.275)
GSXR1000
370 lbs dry/ 75 ft-lb = 4.93 lbs : 1 ft-ln
370 lbs dry/ 160 HP = 2.3125 lbs : 1 HP (3.62)
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmat1.hp.infoseek.co.jp%2Ffavoriteriders%2Frainey%2F1982-1987%2F87vfr.jpg&hash=7e8bd4ff78a6e02e4adeab510b5997bef475e27a)
Seems like VFR 750's were successful at one time.
As for lightweights being twins...that changes with manufacturers designs. FZR400's were the shit for a long time. CB400F's come to mind also.
As for published ratios...
Who cares. Weigh it and run it over the scales at the track in ASRA Thunderbike.
And 85HP for a VFR750? Who's numbers are those?
Quote from: Super Dave on August 18, 2006, 10:52:00 PM
Seems like VFR 750's were successful at one time. As for lightweights being twins...that changes with manufacturers designs. FZR400's were the shit for a long time. CB400F's come to mind also.
I would love it if my VFR even remotely close to what Rainey, Shobert and Merkel were riding.
This isn't the '80s and '90s anymore. At least here in the Mid-Atlantic almost everyone is on an SV or Buell. Occassionally something else might show up but it is Ultralight legal.
85hp is what mine dynoed at after I replaced the California cams with 49-state ones.
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.earthlink.net%2F%7Esgtvfr%2F_ximages%2Fdynocompx.jpg&hash=9a830a6eb02877e076d08a9b8c4d772ad88425c8)
I know the BMW rider that you mentioned and he is very fast, but come on, to lap some expert riders 2 times in one race like down at barber and AM's almost 3 times, you can see that the bike is just so much faster than most of the other light weights. I would also like to see some numbers from the BMW dyno run. Air cooled on newer bikes is not that much of a disadvantage. I have been told that the bmw was putting out 140hp, don't know if that is crank or wheel. I have nothing against the BMW's it just seems unfair to those other experts that are really fast but have a really hard time trying to catch him on that bike.
Ride faster!! Are ya going to complain about Ed hes on a sv and laps experts. I loved beating the buell guys on my sv.
Buells not in superbike come on thats a superbike class my sv made 98hp. Superbike is for modified bikes if its your choice to run a SS bike in it then so be it. I didnt mind running with the bmw and buells.
The BMW rider lapping AM's 3 times @ Barber? I got lapped by him once on the second to last lap in the solo GT race and that was after I had to come in for a stop and go.
Dang, i just bragged abuot getting lapped, but hey at least i have an excuse.
Technology is technology, sometimes it evolves faster than the rules. As for outlawing bikes I dont know about that. I mean how much faster is the SV650 than the EX500's and how about FZR400s, when the sv's came out they stomped these things but no one moved the sv into another class. Not to mention that where the Buell makes its ground on the straights I have never had any problem making that up in the corners. We sv guys may suffer a bit of horsepower loss but those big air cooled twins suffer in the corners. Im not saying there arent fast guys on those bikes and that the bikes are bad, it just seems its easier to go faster on the sv.
Quote from: lightweight on August 19, 2006, 12:03:06 PM
. I would also like to see some numbers from the BMW dyno run. Air cooled on newer bikes is not that much of a disadvantage. I have been told that the bmw was putting out 140hp, don't know if that is crank or wheel.
We were told 101hp post qualifying by a crew member. Keep in mind that is a Factory Pro reading which is about 15% lower than a Dynojet reading...So about 116hp there.
whine, whine, bitch, moan. If the bike is that much better, buy one and race it. There is always a reason somebody is going faster than you, its not always about the bike.
Who is talking about superbike, I am talking about this thing running with 125's and 250's that is all. So to all those on-line tough guys, chill out and get a grip. And for your info, I know the guy on the BMW is Fast on other bikes also. I saw him jump on a mille for the 1st time at shenadoha and turn 1:33's. But that is not the point. I am talking about the bike it self. I really want to know where they get the calculations for figuring out which bikes can run in which class.
Years and years of history and experience usually guide the decision making process for where the bike ends up.
Being an air cooled bike that weighs a ton and makes really good power...Again, it certainly isn't a middleweight bike.
SV's can make good power too.
We can talk about the bike alone, but it doesn't matter a whole lot. It's like a gun. You've got to have someone to use it. Nate's fast, so his well running and heavy BMW does well. 125's & 250's? Yeah, well, I haven't seen many people rider those GP bikes like they should be ridden for years. There was a time when they (250's) were setting the lap records at race tracks. They were faster than 600's. Should they be middleweights too? No, because of the history and experience available to the individuals that have had input into class rules, they are lightweight bikes.
You are more than welcome to put together a rules proposal and submit it to CCS.
Quote from: SVbadguy on August 19, 2006, 08:42:37 AM
This isn't the '80s and '90s anymore.
Well, yeah, I'll agree...
But my 600 Katana made about 80HP in 1988, and I don't remember passing VFR750's in a straight line or anything. Really seems like you might have more problems that cause it to make so little HP. My opinion.
Quote from: lightweight on August 19, 2006, 10:58:42 PM
Who is talking about superbike, I am talking about this thing running with 125's and 250's that is all. So to all those on-line tough guys, chill out and get a grip. And for your info, I know the guy on the BMW is Fast on other bikes also. I saw him jump on a mille for the 1st time at shenadoha and turn 1:33's. But that is not the point. I am talking about the bike it self. I really want to know where they get the calculations for figuring out which bikes can run in which class.
It wasnt you who said something about sb it was someone else so dont get your feathers all ruffled.
If a certain bike dominates a class so be it go out and buy it or prove yourself and beat that person.
If you want a spec SV class, start that somewhere else. Wera's lw class is close to that.
I think a little variety is nice. I bought a 1000 ducati 2-valver so I could race LW and not be one of the SV lemmings, and I think its great to have Nate in the class. As for Buells, if you think its such a huge advantage, get one. Unless you're racing for a living, what is the big deal?
Haven't we been down this road already. Yea it sucks, but don't be a hater b/c there's a guy who's got skillz that's riding it.
I would actually like to see someone else ride the BMW and see how much the 'bike' matters. Hell, Nate could probably hop on one of the LW-legal Duc's and romp everyone as well. Then what?.. would everyone say those Duc.s don't belong in LW?
Sure, every race I'm in with Nate is a race I'm pretty much guaranteed never to win, but it's not like my million dollar contract is not going to get renewed b/c Nate always beats me.
I'd say just accept the fact that he's gonna win and race on, or join him and race one yourself.
I think the LW classes provide the most diverse, entertaining and competitive grid in CCS. Liquid-cooled Ninja and SV 650/700s, air-cooled Ducati 900/944/1000s, air-cooled Buell 984/1200s, and air-cooled BMW 1150/1200s. Add GP 125s and 250s for the GP class, and it's a pretty cool mix.
Check the results and you'll see that riders of each of these bikes can and do win LW races (and some bump up and run competitively in Thunderbike and SuperTwins).
Maybe it's time for you to man up and learn how to ride faster, Mr. Lightweight. You're lucky you have a rider of Nate's caliber to race against and learn from. He will make you faster for chasing him, just as racing against Ed Key in the Midwest region has done for me and many others.
+1 :thumb:
+2
+3.
I'd rather race against Ed Key, Nate Kern and the Buells than the AMA privateers that show up to the big club races anyway.
all Good-yea when N8 passes me,i get to see (albiet shortly),his line .Not much explanation but the proofing is always right in front of me 8) ! +4 from me too! John in NJ
Quote from: Super Dave on August 18, 2006, 10:07:40 PM
Well, the BMW doesn't make the power of a recent production 600 and doesn't it weigh about 150 pounds more than a 600?
And is there one rider that is capable of riding a BMW well? Or is it just "the bike"...
Given what I know, it's a LW bike. SV650's were faster than EX500's. Wasn't a reason to make them middleweights.
I would say that 101hp(post qualifying on the Factory Pro dyno at Barber) is right in the league of the fast 600's. The BMW probably has 25+ lb/ft torque advantage though over a 600. According to BMW's site the new 1200 is 20+ lbs lighter than the "old" bike. That would make the new one in the 425# range judging by previous RRW published T-Bike results. That makes it 65-70# heavier than 600's, far from 150. Basically the same numbers as my old SV1000...Its been stressed many times how "stock" these boxers are, so one would think building to the extent of the rulebook(even SS) would bring huge numbers..Its already gifted around 25-35hp on most other SS built LW bikes. I would take that advantage any day of the week.....In fact I heard(at Barber) "I don't understand why they let that bike in those classes" come from someone ~very~ qualified on the performance abilities of the 1200. So "Lightweight" isn't alone in his thoughts.
Riding a SS bike up into sbk/gp/tbike and complaining others are too fast isn't justifiable to me. However SS versus SS, I see it differently. I don't think it belongs in SS. Indexing "big" SS spec bikes into sbk/gp is what makes more sense.
The complaint is that a brand new bike has a power advantage over the current LW bikes, right? The SV has been on the scene for what 7 years now? shortly after it was introduced there were some rule changes (airbox) that really only applied to it since it had about a 20 HP advantage over the then current LW "leaders". Now 7 years later the "new" bike has a 20 HP advantage over the current LW "leaders". If the advantage is real then expect to see a grid full of BMW's, if not then we'll continue to see a grid full of SV's. Time marches on and technology continues to improve, the "fast" bike in each class will continue to evolve and if winning is the only way you can have fun then you will need to buy the new fastest bike every year. I may be very new to this sport but I'm have an absolute blast running an 89 hawk in GT Lights, no I can't keep up with a well ridden SV or Buell but just how much money can you win in the lightweight classes at a CCS race?
I have heard and read a bit over the this season. Of course I can see where people are coming from, to an extent. there are many differ. agendas here. One being "Im used to spanking people on my DUC1000 and who's this guy... two, regardless of it weighing in at 444lbs. post race the fact of the matter is it has a 58.5 inch wheelbase. true comprehension of riding boils down to wheelbase. that is more of a deficit than power or weight. any BMW dealer will give anyone a demo ride oportunity on their R1200S. I rode a duc1000 two valver, stock, sv, built to the gills sv, and a factory Buell over the off season. if your complaining about my lap times now... lol
The powers that be need to be given more credit for thier decisions. We are thankful to even have a series and not have to run elsewhere. A rider should not be persecuted for experience or ability. If this paid your bills and or cut inot your lively hood then tehre is another can o' worms here. I feel kinda awkward even posting this, anyone who knows me has never even heard me talk in this fashion. I am going to finish what I have started this season and push for even more development of this great bike. Dont be surprised if there are one or 2 BMW's next season besides me. I may be moving in another direction in my career which you wont see me in theLW class, but there will be others that enjoy the machine and have a place to run. It is an easy bike to ride, just challenging to go fast on. can you say that about your own purpose built bike?!
Ed Key a well respected rider and countless others that get it done on SV's, Buell's, and Duc's have all been for a diverse class. A couple of them have ridden my bike, maybe I can get them on here to tell you what they told me.
N8!
well said N8! :cheers:
I raced next to, in front of once or twice and behind more then i care to rember N8. Guys its not the bike . MY superbike sv was faster in a straight line then his beemer and weighed 330 lbs. IT's the racer , trust me you dont want him racing an sv or a buell. Give the rider some props , just cause he's gone before you see what he's doing doesn't mean it's all bike. Oh by the way N8 i got an 05 sv and will be chasing you at summit in 3 weeks...
Ray
Quote from: N8Kern on August 21, 2006, 06:49:01 PM
there are many differ. agendas here. One being "Im used to spanking people on my DUC1000 and who's this guy... N8!
Wow! Seems like you are taking a presentation of a more accurate answer to a simple question a bit too personally. I would take the above personally because I'm pretty sure it pertains to me. Since I was the only Duc1000 guy at BMP, I can assure you there is no agenda here. When I race CCS its typically only T-bike and I know the rule structure I'm up against-thats Sbk's. My 1000 is raced primarily in WERA which allows it in LWT SBK and F2(lwgp equal) in supersport form...I feel that it has no business in LWT SS and wouldn't run it there even though it's legal in CCS and was considered for WERA. I wouldn't get much satisfaction beating "supersport built" bikes with 10+ hp advantage out of a bone stock machine. If someone can't get comparable hp from a SV, built to run Sbk classes, they aren't even trying and are merely bumping up a class. The reason the Duc SS is allowed in the WERA classes is partially the Buell and yes, your original 1100 being allowed in 2003...I raced an SV650 then and raced against you then so "who's this guy?" doesn't really work...Its obvious the program has come along way. I applaud your efforts in that, by the way.
Scanning through old posts on the matter, the current bike seems to have picked up 20 or more hp and lost 65 lbs over the original Boxer Cup bike. Maybe thats what the "whiners" are concerned with. Nothing else in the current classes has evolved quite like this machine. It appears to have outgrown the class, supersport in particular. Seems to be a perfect fit in the more open gp/tbike/supertwin classes though.
Personally, I have exactly zero desire to ride a bike like that on a track, so I will have to take your word on how extremely difficult it is to ride that bike that hard and that fast. I assume you got all of the suspension issues cleared up that you told me about when dropping by my pit on Friday? It looked like it was railin' Sunday morning, mid corner at least! The exits were quite exciting to watch! That shaft really winds that thing in a knot!!
kinda hard for him not to take it personally...BMW + CCS MA & SE regions = N8Kern....
Quote from: PJ721 on August 21, 2006, 09:37:34 PM
kinda hard for him not to take it personally...BMW + CCS MA & SE regions = N8Kern....
True. Myself being involved in the thread and getting "called out"(as the Duc1000 guy with an agenda) struck me as a reaction of me "attacking" which is not what I was doing. Merely stating more accurate facts. The original question posed by "lightweight" the thread starter, was basically "Does anyone agree that -several- bikes do not fit the class?"..I can assure you that alot of folks feel the way he/she does, it's just that anyone that doesn't follow the majority fanfare is labeled a whiner...Honest question here..Is there another LWSS bike that matches HP of the ASRA T-bike Buell's of Estok, Bilansky, etc? Yes weight matters, but so does hp. More so when your talking 30-40% more.
Has anybody looked at the MOTO-ST rules, specifically the class eligibilities. Seems that Colin Fraser, Steve McLaughlin, Don Emde, Roger Edmondson, Kevin Cameron, John Ulrich and some car guys came to some different conclusions as to how some 'lightweight' bikes should be classified.
That series is looking very tempting with my SV so long as I could get a little more backing. Otherwise I'll probably just give 600s a try next year.
Quote from: Brad on August 21, 2006, 10:19:08 PMHonest question here..Is there another LWSS bike that matches HP of the ASRA T-bike Buell's of Estok, Bilansky, etc? Yes weight matters, but so does hp. More so when your talking 30-40% more.
I'm not sure what you're looking for here...
Thunderbike isn't Supersport. It's a National Championship class with a very specific horsepowere to weight ratio.
A Supersport BMW isn't going to be like the BMW Nate rides, is it?
As for 30 to 40% more HP? From stock to Thunderbike? I don't get the question. Or are we talking about the difference between bikes? A good SV in Supersport trim is going to be 70+HP...and yeah, there is a difference in weight. Does it matter?
and N8 can give more info on this - but he DOES have more than 1 bike....3 or 4 I believe and runs them in different LTWT classses....
My BMW's now have an exhaust system. STill have ABS and heated grips though. lol
The biggest difference again is the wheelbase,once you learn how to deal with it then its on par, but 5 inches longer is something that has taken me 3 seasons to learn effieciently. There are like 4 guys in Canada running R1200S regionally, they are talking about coming down a bit next season. They all are good riders, but new to the bike, so if you beat them would you feel better?!
This bike is about focus. on the gas the motor lifts and does not drga the heads as bad, off the gas it drags bad, the motor drops (heads). It forces you to be on the gas. which in return helps you with mid corner speed and exits. Its a great training tool. you should try one. I dont know to many dealers that wouldnt help with a bike...
N8!
This just in Nate Kern is fast.
I watched Nate and Chris Boy battle it out at Daytona last year. Nate beat Chris just at the line. I asked Chris what happened he said Nate can ride the cr*p out of that bike. Not that he had more HP, he just could not believe how fast he was on that big BMW. Chris was on a Bimota with a 900ss ducati motor. Chris is one of the fastest and most knowledgeable guys I know when it comes to motorcycles (ducatis especially). This thread is funny to me because it was exactly my impression of Nate riding that BMW last year at Daytona I thought he had an advantage with all that cc and hp. That was until I talked to Chris and asked him the same thing and he said you think you can ride that thing that fast go ahead. Nate I look forward to seeing you two battling out again this year at Daytona. You should both be on the front row this year and maybe give Ed a run for his money.
Is it just me, or does anyone else feel that there are some other bikes in Lightweight that should not be allowed?
Liquid-cooled or not, it's clear the SV 650 is just too light and too fast for the Lightweight class. It's really no fair. You see, there's this guy in the Midwest region, and he races one, and he wins all the Lightweight races! I mean all of 'em. Every single one!! What's up with that? He even won every race at the ROC last year, all seven he entered!! Clearly that SV is the dominant bike and nobody else can compete. I mean, why even try?? I say ban 'em so the rest of us poor slobs who can't afford SVs can win a few.
Plus, you should see this guy. He's like, tiny, and super old. He can barely hang on to the thing, and he still wins. He throws his back out, can't even stand up straight, and he still wins. It's the SV, man. It's just so fast! Too FAST!
Yep, those SVs need to be bumped up into Unlimited GP for sure. How does anyone else feel?
Signed,
Heavyweight
::) :biggrin:
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Quote from: PJ on August 22, 2006, 09:32:43 PM
Is it just me, or does anyone else feel that there are some other bikes in Lightweight that should not be allowed?
Liquid-cooled or not, it's clear the SV 650 is just too light and too fast for the Lightweight class. It's really no fair. You see, there's this guy in the Midwest region, and he races one, and he wins all the Lightweight races! I mean all of 'em. Every single one!! What's up with that? He even won every race at the ROC last year, all seven he entered!! Clearly that SV is the dominant bike and nobody else can compete. I mean, why even try?? I say ban 'em so the rest of us poor slobs who can't afford SVs can win a few.
Plus, you should see this guy. He's like, tiny, and super old. He can barely hang on to the thing, and he still wins. He throws his back out, can't even stand up straight, and he still wins. It's the SV, man. It's just so fast! Too FAST!
Yep, those SVs need to be bumped up into Unlimited GP for sure. How does anyone else feel?
Signed,
Heavyweight
Stop Stop Stop I can't breath!!!! ROFLOL
Guys, I had the chance to ride one of these BMW's down at roebling, now don't get me wrong, i am not the fast guy out there but that BMW is definitely not a racing machine per say. I felt like I should be pulling over to the rode side cafe for a latte or something. You really need to have some skills to make this thing go fast. And with Nate never being on any of my Mille's he jumped on my 03 and turned a 19 on his 1st lap then again at shenadoah he took my 04 for a ride and turned 33's. So in short, it is not the bike.....It is the rider. When he runs supertwins against me I get spanked every time by him. But yet i pull him down the straights like he was standing still. His ablility makes up for it in the infield.
Quote from: PJ on August 22, 2006, 09:32:43 PM
Is it just me, or does anyone else feel that there are some other bikes in Lightweight that should not be allowed?
.....
Yep, those SVs need to be bumped up into Unlimited GP for sure. How does anyone else feel?
Signed,
Heavyweight
The older you be, the faster you go... :biggrin:
Next year, that rider plans to race in a full body cast. Won't be anything physically wrong, he justs feels you guys deserve a shot. :lmao:
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Nate is a very good rider and am sure he would be winning either way, but I think the new BMW 1200 is too much for the lightweight SS class . I'd be curious to see how the horsepower and weight compare to an SV . The average SS SV 650 is around 75 hp and 390 lbs . An SV 1000 is around 115 hp and 430 lbs, I would guess the new BMW closer to that. I switched to the lightweight stuff this year as a cheaper alternative to running GSXRs, I think I could buy 2 SVs for the cost of one BMW. Class strucutures are modified all the time to keep current with available machinery, I agree that this should be looked at, allow the bike in GP and SB, but not SS .
Quote from: PJ on August 22, 2006, 09:32:43 PM
Is it just me, or does anyone else feel that there are some other bikes in Lightweight that should not be allowed?
Liquid-cooled or not, it's clear the SV 650 is just too light and too fast for the Lightweight class. It's really no fair. You see, there's this guy in the Midwest region, and he races one, and he wins all the Lightweight races! I mean all of 'em. Every single one!! What's up with that? He even won every race at the ROC last year, all seven he entered!! Clearly that SV is the dominant bike and nobody else can compete. I mean, why even try?? I say ban 'em so the rest of us poor slobs who can't afford SVs can win a few.
Plus, you should see this guy. He's like, tiny, and super old. He can barely hang on to the thing, and he still wins. He throws his back out, can't even stand up straight, and he still wins. It's the SV, man. It's just so fast! Too FAST!
Yep, those SVs need to be bumped up into Unlimited GP for sure. How does anyone else feel?
Signed,
Heavyweight
A couple of years ago at RA I was hanging out by the dyno after thunderbike qualifying with Dean Haggmann and Estock. We were bullshitting around and eventually the subject turned to Ed's physical stature. Estock had said somthing that made us all crack up. Estock said "It's one thing to have him beat you.... but then you see him in his pits without his leathers on... and man, that hurts.
Quote from: lightweight on August 18, 2006, 04:57:14 PM
Is it me, or does any one else feel that some bikes in light weight should not be allowed, like the new BMW's. Air cooled or not, they are just too big and fast for a light weight class. the new Moto-St series considers it a heavy weight twin. I think in CCS it should be at least a middle weight, not a light weight. how does anyone else feel
This is in reference only to the opening statement. Haven't read the whole thread yet...
BMW claims 122 horsepower, and 430lbs dry for the R1200S. Is this bike legal in CCS's lightweight classes? Doesn't BMW make an 800 twin? Maybe that'd be a little more appropriate in the lightweight classes.
For sure Nate is fast as shit. He was goin' through that kink before the start finish at Shenandoah at a disturbing pace. IMHO faster then everyone else, including that nutty novice kid. It was scary to even watch.
"That guy" usually doesn't do too bad in MW races either on his Bemmer.
The weight of the bike and rider need to added to actually calculate power to weight!!
SV- 390lbs+165lbs rider=555lbs/70hp=7.93lbs per hp
RS125- 160lbs+165lbs rider=325lbs/38hp=8.55
BMW- 430lbs+ 165lbs rider=595lbs/101hp= 5.89 lbs per hp
You really don't think the RS125 is the most powerful!
SV- 390lbs/70hp=5.57lbs per hp
RS125- 160lbs/38hp=4.21lbs per hp
BMW- 430lbs/101hp=4.26
I forget how it was exactly worded, but XSeal said it best, if it is the bike to beat, g buy one. Again, it is a very easy bike to ride, just hard to go fast on.
No SV I have ever raced agist has been 390lbs.
N8!
I am going to volunteer myself to race Ed's superbike next year. Of course I am a young female with pigtails and no racing experience...but I should be out there beating all the LW guys in no time...I think not. The guy is fast. Plain and simple. So next year I'm borrowing his bike and I'm going to be fast to. Yeah right...
Quote from: Racingxtc7 on September 04, 2006, 09:40:34 PM
The weight of the bike and rider need to added to actually calculate power to weight!!
SV- 390lbs+165lbs rider=555lbs/70hp=7.93lbs per hp
RS125- 160lbs+165lbs rider=325lbs/38hp=8.55
BMW- 430lbs+ 165lbs rider=595lbs/101hp= 5.89 lbs per hp
You really don't think the RS125 is the most powerful!
SV- 390lbs/70hp=5.57lbs per hp
RS125- 160lbs/38hp=4.21lbs per hp
BMW- 430lbs/101hp=4.26
Ok I can't look at this any longer. It always seems that when ever someone talks about Nates HP to weight ratio there is a mixed bag of dynojet and factory hp measurements. To compare motorcycles we will leave the rider out of the equation and use the same dyno numbers. A race prepped first gen SV650 weighs about 365. With a 1mm SS prepped engine makes 74hp on race gas on a dynojet. That same bike on a factory dyno makes 66hp that is approximately a 12% reduction in measured hp.
The numbers for Nates bike as reported in RRW is 445lbs and 101.6hp. Now lets redo the calculations
using the same hp measurements
Using a Factory dyno:
SV 365 / 66 = 5.53 lbs per hp
BMW 445 / 101.6 = 4.3799 lbs per hp
If the sv weighs allot less than stock... say 300lbs
SV 300 / 66 = 4.54
How about a good running SV Super bike
SV = 325 / 84 = 3.869 Lbs per hp
I am assuming that people are upset about the CCS regional races, and that Nate's bike is always run in ASRA TBike configuration. Well the bike has a power to weight advantage against a Super Sport SV, but not against a good SV super bike. He still is not meeting the 4 to 1 ratio for ASRA. No matter what, wrestling 445lbs of motorcycle is not physically easy. That bike has to push allot more air than any SV. Nate is a very good rider, but both Nate and Ed can be beat. It will take a good bike and allot of riding skill.
If the people who are upset about a bikes legality continue to speak their mind here instead of to Kevein Elliot, nothing will get done. Racing is about competition, if things are unfair, it is up to the racers to bring it to the attention of the sanctioning body in a professional manner. If you tell them they are not doing their job and they are idiots, you will not get very far. If you approach them calmly and discuss the issue diplomatically with facts, not opinions, things will get changed. You as a rider have three choices:
1) Complain and do nothing.
2) Do something to change the rules.
3) Get better and beat those guys.
For those of you who want to complain and do nothing, the way I see it, if you do not want to be measured against others go do track days and tell your friends that you are fast.
Yeah what he said...LOL :thumb: