I've heard different responses to this... Do you leave U4 in your tank or drain it? I know that the MR9 stuff is bad to leave in but don't use it. The U4 drums say to drain it... but a few don't have the sticker either. What do you do?
Have heard that it can be bad on seals and what not...
I drain it...
A sealed can is 'sealed'. A gas tank 'breathes'. VP seems to evaporate much quicker than regular gas does...
I drain it from my tank. Why take the chance?
Gasoline should be stored in a closed container. The lighter fractions of the gasoline will evaporate more quickly. After a while your gasoline will not be the same, you will lose some performance. Not very crucial for a car running pump gas, a problem for a vehicle tuned to take full advantage of its fuel (race or pump).
You should always drain your tank at the end of a race weekend, even if you are running pump gas.
If you are worried about the corrosive nature of some race fuels, drain the tank, put in some pump gas, idle the engine for a few minutes, drain the pump gas.
Drain Pump???? That's a new one. There is a warning label on every can of U4 advising you to drain it.
VP claims you don't have to do that with U4.2, I still do.
One thing we do, after draining, we mix 2 stroke oil at 80:1 and run it through the engine for a few minutes. Keeps thing lubed up.
Man you guys are anal. I've never bothered as long as it's only a few weeks at most between rides. I try to plan ahead so there's not much in there and then run regular gas through to dilute the race fuel that remains. Never had a problem even when it's stayed in the tank by itself. I know, I know, it evaporates faster than regular gas but I was told by a mechanic I trust that U4 is okay to leave in (as long as it's not over winter or something stupid like that) and I haven't had any reason to worry about it.
Most race fuels have stabilizers added to them to increase shelf life.
Modern oxygenated pump gas has a shelf life of about a month.
The main reason for draining is that the composition of any fuel changes if it is in a vented container. All the different chemicals that make up the fuel do not evaporate at the same rate. Steel cans are best for long term storage.
I got into the habit of draining fuel from racing a 2 stroke. The oil begins to degrade the moment it is mixed with gasoline. A cheap engine does not matter. A GP bike is another thing. At the end of the weekend the fuel tank is drained and the fuel is used in the lawnmower. Of course it only takes (literally) a minute to drain the tank on my TZ.
Thanks for all the response. When you drain it from the tank would you save it back into the "original" drum to run again or use it for another purpose since it's been in the bike? Would it be a bad idea to mix it back into the original drum?
Since it was in the tank for a short period of time, I would return it to the same container.
Yeah, I return it to the same container. I then run pump gas in my bike for a few minutes.
Don't store racing fuel in plastic containers. They will breath out the good aromatics and the oxygenates, if your fuel has oxygenates. U4 is oxygenated.
Quote from: Super Dave on September 13, 2007, 09:04:29 PM
Don't store racing fuel in plastic containers. They will breath out the good aromatics and the oxygenates, if your fuel has oxygenates. U4 is oxygenated.
...and the fumes eventually make your hose limp and sticky. Really...I'm not kidding.
My hose got limp and sticky. Fortunately Lithium Motorsports has nice firm hoses to replace the old ones. :thumb:
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Hey, you VP people...been harder to get product this year? I heard that VP is being sold to Torco.
Drain it and run pump through the system.
Quote from: Super Dave on September 14, 2007, 08:12:36 AM
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You're the one who told me not to delete my posts. See what I've been sparing you from? :ass:
Well since MJ doesn't have access to a computer till he gets home from the event Sunday night I thought I would say what the problem turned out to be. After some ED Key God-like intervention guiding MJ in the right direction the problem indeed turned out to be varnishing (or whatever you want to call it) of the pilot jets. A simple carb cleaner bath of the jet's followed by some compressed air and problem was solved!
With Ed having touched his bike Mike should be turning 16's without a problem now! :biggrin:
Quote from: GSXR RACER MIKE on September 14, 2007, 11:03:38 PM
With Ed having touched his bike Mike should be turning 16's without a problem now! :biggrin:
The bike is ready to run 16's but did Ed touch Mike?
ED what .
I must be chopped liver.
Quote from: Hawk on September 14, 2007, 11:38:27 PM
The bike is ready to run 16's but did Ed touch Mike?
Funny funny guy..... :ass:
Quote from: resurrection on September 15, 2007, 12:35:14 AM
ED what .
I must be chopped liver.
Not at all!!!! I didn't get to see your post before heading to the track or I would have called for sure! :thumb:
I can help you and your bike catch Ed give us a call@ resurrection .
Remember he may offer alot of help but it's not in his best intrest to make you faster than he is!!
Quote from: Super Dave on September 14, 2007, 08:13:10 AM
Hey, you VP people...been harder to get product this year? I heard that VP is being sold to Torco.
No way...
I have not had any problems getting fuel. But I buy it in bulk. Dad is nice enough and usually needs an excuse to get out of the house so he makes a annual/bi-annual run for me.
Don't store the fuel in the tank, you will be cleaning everything sooner or later.
Drain it (I usually put it back into a VP can and seal tight and store in cool location) and then just run a gallon or 2 of good pump gas in it. Run motor long enough to flush the VP through system. If sitting for period of time (month or more) add a very small amount of stabil, just makes starting easier and reduces risk of water contamination.
They say that 4.2 was created because so many people yelled about U4 gelling. I talked to a tech at VP and they basically said no reason to buy U4.2 if you drain it. I think it costs a little more but I really can't remember.
I haven't heard anything about them being bought, but I do know they got out of the Oil product business last year.
Quote from: resurrection on September 16, 2007, 10:33:51 PM
I can help you and your bike catch Ed give us a call@ resurrection .
Remember he may offer alot of help but it's not in his best intrest to make you faster than he is!!
Problem is, Ed spends all of his spare money on unobtainium, all of his waking moments either eating, breathing or pissing racing, and he's been doing it since the dinosaurs turned into crude, so Mikey has a bunch of catching up to do! :ahhh: :biggrin:
Although Ed has not so recently hit his head...
When nick (grasshopper) started racing 4 or 5 years ago ,he thought ED was untouchable.
After several bikes and many laps we and I say WE because I have spent countless hours building and boosting his bike and confidence.
Ed is only a fast human any human with a good bike and enough effort will give him a race.
Don't sell yourself short .Nick never did and next year Ed may well be chasing him
Ed's not human.
Quote from: APP_Racing on September 18, 2007, 09:41:35 AM
They say that 4.2 was created because so many people yelled about U4 gelling. I talked to a tech at VP and they basically said no reason to buy U4.2 if you drain it. I think it costs a little more but I really can't remember.
actually 4.2 costs $10 a can less (5 gal).
isnt that the stuff that was buring motors at daytona back in march?
Quote from: tstruyk on September 19, 2007, 12:03:14 PM
isnt that the stuff that was buring motors at daytona back in march?
I believe they have reformulated it.
Why go through all the trouble, is the fuel so good that it warrents the headache of filling n drainging of the tank so often?
Why not use a race fuel that has the same gravity (a/f ratio) as pump?
Actually, you're asking an excellent question, but you're not recognizing all the details.
Everything being equal, yeah, it would just be a matter of getting a fuel that has a similar specific gravity.
However, there are a couple things that make a difference also. First, pump gas is unleaded and the uniformity of the flame burn isn't like leaded. Leaded will burn with a more uniform flame front. Unleadeds will not, and, often, they pump out an amount of unburned mixture.
Next, the amount of oxygenate in some fuels is more than pump gas. U4 is one that has more than the standard amount of oxygenate in most pump gases.
Now, there are racing fuels that don't require that they be drained and all like some VP products to reduce the danger of ruining hard parts.
Pardon my lack of knowlage, I thought EFI bikes had an O2 sensor and the fuel in question was unleaded.
U4 is leaded. Yeah, they have an oxygen sensor, but you can remove them without it affecting the map, per se; it doesn't throw a code. Leaded fuel will kill an O2 sensor...and a cat too, for that matter.
I had thought curiosity killed the cat. :wah:
Sorry, couldn't resist. :biggrin:
If the kittie doesn't get pet and licked often it get's lonely and might die from lack of attention! :kissy:
(I couldn't resist either! :biggrin: )
Quote from: Noidly1 on September 19, 2007, 04:27:20 PM
Why go through all the trouble, is the fuel so good that it warrents the headache of filling n drainging of the tank so often?
Yes
If your inclined to drain your tank and have a FI bike, I definately recommend the quick-connects from motion pro. Buy 3, one for the pressure side, one for the regulator side, and one for on a 3 foot length of hose to drain to your gas can.
Some racers (like me) closely monitor fuel consumption. I drain the tank after every session or race. That way I'm not carrying extra fuel load. 8 laps a Blackhawk uses 0.9 gallons + another 0.5 to keep the fuel pump submerged.
For Dave's comment, if your lucky, your FI bike doesn't have an o2 sensor. Marelli units (before '06) don't utilize one. Neither do TL motors (I think when suzuki switch to the 32 bit processor for the sv they added a o2 channel). Both utilize Alpha-N mapping. Unless you have a wide range lamda sensor, the feedback from exhaust mixture makes race tuning nearly impossible.
Quote from: Super Dave on September 14, 2007, 08:12:36 AM
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Okay Rosno...I finally saw that commercial and now I get it. You sooo funny. :biggrin:
('scuse the threadjack.)
Drain your U-4.
Quote from: tstruyk on September 19, 2007, 12:03:14 PM
isnt that the stuff that was buring motors at daytona back in march?
No , that was probably U4.1 which came out in the spring because that fuel required to be richened up excessively and if you didn't the bike would run very lean. I believe they used a lot of ethanol for the oxygenate. VP has discontinued U4.1 and replaced it with U4.2 which is closer to pump gas as far as mapping goes.