Whats with amateurs in LWGP doing 1:18's? That's awfully fast for an amateur don't you think. What exactly is a good time for an amateur at blackhawk anyway? ???
I agree. Lwtwght amateur's are running alot faster this year than last. Last year 1.23's-1.24's would put you in the top 3 on most weekends, not this year.
Most fast guys are running 1.21-1.22. I know of only one lwtwght amateur that has run 1.18's and that would be Mike Wemmer on a supersport legal SV.
All I can say is THANK GOD FOR FORMULA FORTY!!!!
Jim
CCS #41
Last year Atlas and Riebe were running fast times in that range right up into the experts.
Maybe Wemmer's getting attention since his bike is a bit uglier than Atlas' was.
Mike comes to my school and uses Power Mist from me. Regardless, I think he's riding well for a bigger guy on an SV.
1:18 on a LW?
I placed 4th in MWSS (01 GSXR600) with all 7 hot laps between 1:20.00 and 1:21.43. I accused the timer of cheating me out of the teens on the 120.00 lol.... ;D
I also timed AM # 19 Andy F. (who took VS School on Thursday) running fast laps of mid to low 1.19's and winning everything in site including AM Unlimited GP. IMHO, Based on last weekend (my only weekend at BHF), it seems consistent 1:20's puts you in contention for the podium.
Super_Dave can you give me any hints about Turn 7? It seems I either went in too hot and had the front sliding and a time or 2 chattering or I went in slightly off podium pace. I have full race tech/penske suspension and it seemed real dialed for every other corner...
I know for a fact that the guy who won AM LWGP was doing 1:18's... and the second place guy was doing 1:19's. Both on a TZ250. Oh well.. I suck. :)
My lap timer must be slow. ???
yeah me too! There's probably something wrong with my micron lap timer. The damn thing won't read below 1:22 :D... yeah thats it.
I think the fastest time that Andy turned was a 17 on Sunday. I got a chance to make a little suspension adjustment before the second practice, and he seemed to like it.
Easiest way to do turn seven...come out on July 18th?!?
Really is. It can be suspension set up problems, a little here a little there. Admittedly, I don't like the traction in the middle of the corner. Would like to get on the gas sooner, but the back seems to spool up a bit.
Lap timers...
So, I was timing Monte Nichols, my first student in my first class, 1993, and Steve Johnson on the Tul-laris. If the opportunity was there for Steve to set the lap record, he could do it.
So, he made a little break to get a lead and I had him at a 1:13.89 on one of my stop watches. Bill, race director, had him at a 1:11.91.
Later in the day, I put the same watch on Mike Riebe in Middleweight Grand Prix. Had him at 22's with the fastest a 20. He came in and I checked his lap timer and it recorded 1:20's with the fastest of an 18.
So, Steve did do a 1:11. Nice.
Yeah, that Tularis 1:11 was unbelievable.
If I do the July 20-21 race at BHF, I will definitely come to the school. I was looking at Andy's previous visits to BHF this year and it looks like your assistance helped him go from top 5ish to winning. At least that's what he said during one of his times on Mr. Microphone. Problem is I'm already signed up for Gateway the 14th and 15th, but i was thinking about dumping those and doing BHF instead.
Andy, if you are reading this, great job. You were flying!
Steve didn't push hard doing the 11. He can go faster. It will be cool.
Andy enrolled in all the schools. Makes it easier on everyone to keep a finger on one's riding pulse.
Happy to have you there. Just try to enroll earlier. Costs less, and I've got to limit the program to so many riders.
Wemmer only goes that fast because he has that chicken on his tail section flapping its wings. ;D ;D
Yeah, but the powers at be made him take it off.
They won't let my students wear their shirts either. The last one's were red. Guess red bikes, helmets, boots, leathers, etc. must be out too.
Rough not being the "official" school....
:20's and 'teens, huh... now I'm REALLY depressed. Dave, I wish I had hooked up with you back in May! :(
QuoteYeah, but the powers at be made him take it off.
They won't let my students wear their shirts either. The last one's were red. Guess red bikes, helmets, boots, leathers, etc. must be out too.
Rough not being the "official" school....
Wonder why they made him take it off. It wasnt coming off.
I dunno why they did that to your shirts unless it was because of the shirts flapping while riding.
QuoteProblem is I'm already signed up for Gateway the 14th and 15th, but i was thinking about dumping those and doing BHF instead
??? you would rather do a BHF's riders school then get in the ring w/ your local buddies at Gateway? :-/
That's what I thought....See ya at Gateway ;)
I dunno why they did that to your shirts unless it was because of the shirts flapping while riding.
No, actually, they just wouldn't let the guys wear them. Any other school shirt flaps. I've seen bodywork and leathers flap. Just the way it is.
you would rather do a BHF's riders school then get in the ring w/ your local buddies at Gateway?
That's what I thought....See ya at Gateway
I'll be at Gateway. Wouldn't mind doing the same thing there that I do at Blackhawk, but it is very expensive to do so. I have spend an extraordinary amount of money trying to help riders. I need to have a house for my family. Maybe in the future I could do a program there.
As for doing a school vs racing...
Track time is valuable only in the sense that it is fun. If that is all, then it doesn't matter where you do it. If the value is for knowledge, then the game changes.
Been doing this too long, and I had to learn things by long term experiences and spending a lot of money. Doesn't have to be that way! I can offer ideas, hands on support, logical courses of action for suspension, and the like. There are no perfect answers, but there are answers to doing this addictive sport. Quicker and safer? That's the way it should be. Make it easy.
Pushing one's self on a race track may only serve to reinforce the things one already knows. Opening other doors and avenues is the key.
Quote??? you would rather do a BHF's riders school then get in the ring w/ your local buddies at Gateway? :-/
That's what I thought....See ya at Gateway ;)
I dunno, the way I hear it, none of my local riding buddies are racing much these days. One has a cracked frame :P, another will only do Gateway events :-/, another hasn't been to a race all year ???, and the other is willing to go to BHF....
If, on the other hand, people would actaully show up, then I would go to Gateway even if it's the most dangerous track on the circuit. ;)
The years pass by and some stay, but most go. If you're having fun, then do it. You meet different people in different places.
QuoteI dunno, the way I hear it, none of my local riding buddies are racing much these days. One has a cracked frame :P, another will only do Gateway events :-/, another hasn't been to a race all year ???, and the other is willing to go to BHF....
If, on the other hand, people would actaully show up, then I would go to Gateway even if it's the most dangerous track on the circuit. ;)
Can't speak 4 big-K, but me and e929 will be there.
I'll even have a new frame and fresh motor...yay :)
Dude, don't let me keep you from BHF's racing school, I just wanted us all to pit and hang at Gateway.
I am way out of the points since my motor blew back in March, so I'm just gonna do the local gateway races for fun.
Racing aside, wait till you see me doing my much improved standing on the seat wheelies @ 70mph down the highway ;D
Super-Dave, wasn't trying to 'steal' one of your potential customers....just wanted to hook up w/ my buddies at Gateway :)
I don't look at it as "stealing"...maybe highway robbery...LOL!
Here's my dilema. The word "school" seems to have developed a bit of a stigma. My "riding school" that I attended years ago didn't do much for me. Did a couple of "schools" in the early 1990's too. Didn't do much then either.
The thing that helped me was someone taking an interest in me and giving me thoughts about what I was doing, showing me how to deal with my suspension, etc., etc. And that's really what we offer.
As for hooking up at Gateway... I do the same thing. I understand. I'll be there too!
:-X Mike Weemer is out of control!!! He does not ride within his limits. If someone doesn't talk to him soon he is going to hurt himself real bad or worse hurt someone else. He crashed 2 Times at RA and then just crashed his brains out at Blackhawk last week. Hopefully he will realize what reality is and learn not to ride over his head all of the time. Just my $.02
Who ever has $0.02 to put in about me can grow some and tell me to my face that I'm over my head. The first time I crashed at RA some guy high-sided right in front of me in practice. I tucked the front to keep from running him over. You probably would have been an A#*hole and ran him over. I didn't want to see him end up like John W. like at Gateway. The second race I crashed in the rain in turn 6. Four or more other people crashed in the same race and I finished 8th out of 10 in that race. At Blackhawk I was turning 1:18 consistantly and I was told I got a lowest time of 1:17:93. I make clean passes, I hold my line, and the only thing you have to complain about is that you can't keep up. Yes, I crashed in turn 6B, at Blackhawk, dragging my peg. Mike Sasharey (sorry about the spelling Mike) saw the whole thing. All Mike had to say to me after we were done racing was that I was railn' out there. My bike has 71HP at the wheel, a suspention that "Super" Dave helped me set up, and a good rider that isn't afraid to crash once in a while. >:( If you think because I'm turning 1:18 and I crash every now and then that I'm out of controle or dangerous then what about Bob S. going threw turn 5 last year and crashing; or "Super" Dave getting the checkered flag and crashing in turn 1; or last weekend everyone that crashed in turn 1,3,6,&7 in one race; or Tez, Gordon, ect. crashing last weekend to. If you want more examples send me an email or you can call me or you can even come talk to me at the track. email:SV650RR930@YAHOO.COM Phone:608)217-6433 or 608)837-8260
Wemmer....That damn chicken flipped me off when you passed me a few weeks ago. You better controle him. I'll pluck his ASS. >:(
YTAK
"I make clean passes, I hold my line, and the only thing you have to complain about is that you can't keep up"...
I don't mean to cause any trouble but you did bump into me coming out of T4 near the end of a GTO event last time I was at BHF (June???) :) Its all good though, racing is racing :) Sorry I held you up :) BTW I was 24s.
opps - I mean I was TURNING 24s
Hey, Mike I'm sorry about bumping you. Were you the guy I was passing on the outside in turn 4. I wanted 3rd place so bad I made a very aggressive move to keep that position. I't didn't work. Mike Wemmer
QuoteHey, Mike I'm sorry about bumping you. I wanted 3rd place so bad I made a very aggressive move to keep that position. I't didn't work. Mike Wemmer
You make a point I have a question about. I was in a race a couple of weeks back at Gateway and had a line inside someone someone just before going onto the banking. I could have given it just a little more gas and edged the rider out wide (towards that nice concrete wall) but backed off instead. IMHO, there is no club race that is important enough to pull a risky move that can put yourself or a fellow racer out. I understand the "heat of the moment" adrenalin, but do we need to back off and wait for a safer pass or go for broke?
Dave Watson
CCS AM #357
Generally, I like to play nice, unless someone changes the game. One might nudge a bit in a big money race, even at a club event at the expert level. But it isn't anything that should be knocking someone off.
I don't do it, in general. But prior years of AMA Supersport racing does kind of teach you how to do it.
QuoteGenerally, I like to play nice, unless someone changes the game. One might nudge a bit in a big money race, even at a club event at the expert level. But it isn't anything that should be knocking someone off.
I don't do it, in general. But prior years of AMA Supersport racing does kind of teach you how to do it.
I believe the example was amateur level club racing. What is "big money"? Is $1000 enough for someone to run a rider off the track? Is that the unspoken code of conduct and unprinted rule book I'm following in those races? Is that the way it is whenever I'm in a race? I sure want to know what I'm doing before I write a check my body can't cash...
BTW, FWIW, I know Mike Wemmer from NESBA and I don't see him participating in intentional, questionable and hazardous practices. He is a standup racer IMHO...
Hey, Mike I'm sorry about bumping you. Were you the guy I was passing on the outside in turn 4. I wanted 3rd place so bad I made a very aggressive move to keep that position. I't didn't work. Mike Wemmer
---
Not a problem, racing is racing :) I'd be fighting for 3rd if I could too. Unfortunatly it was more like 10th or 11th for me...Mike CCS Am#104
>Is $1000 enough for someone to run a rider off the track? Is that the unspoken code of conduct and unprinted rule book I'm following in those races? <
That implies that someone runs someone off the track. Seldom does that happen unless the rider is unable to confidently control the bike.
But if riders feel that it is necessary to go fast enough that the bike moves around on the track, touching is not uncommon. It is not intentional, but it does happen.
Bone headed moves occur, for that matter.
If Jimmy Joe is coming out of a corner so slow that Billy Bob can make it around the outside no problem, but anal ol' Jimmy Joe doesn't like that. So, he picks the bike up to keep Billy Bob behind or punt him off. That's not acceptable.
Man, this is getting pretty complicated. ::) I guess I'll just have to ride like I do on the street, like everyone is out to get me! ;D ;D ;D
Dave 333, I don't have a problem with crashing and getting hurt. That is the reason I pass people on the outside. If I crash while passing someone on the outside I won't take them out, just myself. If I do pass on the inside line I make sure I have time, room, and I'm not going to take the guy I'm passing out if I go down. If anyone wants to talk or yell at me personaly I'll be at Road America this week/weekend. See yall at R.A. Mike Wemmer
What is the big deal about someone passing on the outside?
There is no big deal about passing someone on the outside. I think what Mike Wemmer was trying to say is that is how he does it - passing on the outside whenever possible so if he lowsides, he doesn't take anyone else out.
Dawn :)
QuoteThere is no big deal about passing someone on the outside. I think what Mike Wemmer was trying to say is that is how he does it - passing on the outside whenever possible so if he lowsides, he doesn't take anyone else out.
Dawn :)
I agree. It seems like some people don't think its right.
FWIW (I just started passing people a couple weeks ago), passing on the outside seems instinctively safer.
I hate passing people on the outside. It gives them a chance to push you off the track if they chose to do so. Since I ALWAYS makes safe passes(which is probably my biggest downfall in racing)... I would much rather pass on the inside then the outside unless I have to. I also always appreciate a good pass put on me.... it makes racing that much more fun :)
Hey Dawn, thanks for helping me out! Everyone has there own style of riding. Some people feel safer passing on the outside &some people feel safer going on the inside. I do both. Like I said though, I like passing on the outside better because of the lean angles I'm at. I turned a 1:17:93 at Blackhawk (so I was told) on a 71hp SV650. My lean angles are a little more radical than some of the other people I'm racing with so I have more of a chance of crashing. Well, I'm headed to R.A. so if you have any questions about the races I'll be back on monday. Look me up if you come up to the track. I'm right across from the consetion stands. L8R, Mike Wemmer
Passing on the outside can work if you are going much faster than the person that you are passing. Why? Because it is a longer distance around that person and you have a smaller area to deal with since one cannot use the inside portion of the track.
Hey everyone. I just thought I'd throw another $0.02 in. I went to R.A. and had a drunken good time. The only safe pass there is is one without incident (bumping, running off the track, ect.). For instance, at R.A. the N.R.R.S guys were bitching about the C.C.S. guys. They were talking about us being slow and unsafe to pass. Does that make all of us unsafe to race with because we don't have about $20,000+ in our bikes and a mechanic to do all our work. These guys are supposed to be a step above us. Either they suck and it's all just the bike or they like to wine alot. I think it might be BOTH!!! These guys started out where we are so they Have no room to bitch about us. I hope to race atleast one race with these guys next year (on my SV650). I'll probably run the 600 supersport class. Maybe that will show them they have no room to bitch about us being slow because I was running times about 14 seconds off the fastest amature on either a GSXR600 or 750. The differance is that it was about 40 degrees (on average) out. It was also raining. I could have probably dropped about 6 to 8 seconds (with it being warmer) off of that 14 seconds. We will see (next year) weather I'm blowing off hot air or I'm telling the truth. See ya at Blackhawk Farms, Mike Wemmer
Hey Mike!
You must really suck and ride like a lunatic! ::) Hope to see you on the track soon... ;D ;D ;D
These guys are supposed to be a step above us. ! These guys started out where we are so they Have no room to bitch about us.
Not necessarily. But regardless, there was some really slow, dangerous traffic out there. Didn't recognize the bikes, so I'd be they were guys that followed the NRRS, and they had never been to RA. The sessions were a bit screwy. And with Connell turning 2:14's among bikes that are trying to get below 2:30? You can get the picture. It wasn't right.
Mike Wemmer.... so does that mean that you will remain an amateur next year? ???
I hope not!!!
He needs to give the slow guys a chance out there! ;)
all club racers are slow.. it's true.. Max Biaggi told me so..
Quoteall club racers are slow.. it's true.. Max Biaggi told me so..
i KNOW im slow !! but im having fun !!
as long as (speaking of passing) i keep from thinking about # 966 ccs mw on that suzuki last time at blackhawk farms (july 21) STUFFING me horribly on the slowest right hander there (which for me is the second most concentration demander) turn 4 (the bus stop, is it??)
i couldve been wrong for riding defensive (but i notice that all the top 5 am middleweight guys do it) (since ive KINDA joined em' :-)) (so im trying to hang with the romans in rome?) but he didnt have the room to get under me, which is prob why he appeared in my vision (just as my knee is almost down) he's on one wheel, and fighting it, (the wheels werent pointing the same directions) the front was near sideways pointing to the right and the rear is higher than my tail section (yes there are witnesses) so he nearly tosses himself over the windscreen, i slow the best i can without dumping on my own, he releases the brake and slams the rear back to the ground, but still with too much speed, instead of taking himself strait ahead and off the track, he grabs the brake again, and you should know from here, he's all but stopped in my path, and i ALMOST get under his "overshoot" but the tires touch, my front and his rear, i tumble hard on a knee that i MRI'd the thurs. previous (prob wouldntve fell if the mri was monday :-) ......... anyway, i had gotten under him going in to t3, and i call it clean (neither of us fell) ( but realy, i was carrying more speed than he was) and dont think it was real close at all, we were having a three way battle for third, but i didnt continue, and he finished 14th, and since i didnt cause either of us to miss that elusive "wood" im a lil peeved (not that i didnt know that falling is possible) but i think that i left out the fact that (as there were three of us passing each other for 3rd 4th and 5th place)
im comfortable in saying that I, was not going to finish that race in front of either of them, the flagger will tell you the same, t7 cornerworkers may have seen it different, but each lap would show both of them passing me waaaaay before the start/finish..........so i think it was a wasted collision, he couldve relaxed, i wasnt going to cross the finish in front of him, and the other guy was whippin us both.
hi dawn :) how's paul ???
oh, there you are..........hey paul...
and there's brian....wussup ??
anyway 966, i walked away, boys play ruff..... and im still living a dream !!!
ike
Ike:
Paul is doing fine. After his get-off in the carosel at RA, some of the other SV riders are calling him Gumby ;D I think we finally got all the gravel out of the bike, but it Paul had to take the calipers, body work and battery out to do it.
Hopefully we will see you at Blackhawk but we have to see how the $$$ situation goes.
See ya! ;)
Whats happenin Ike! is that what happend at the last blackhawk? I was watching one of your races and I thought you got back on and finished the race? ???
QuoteWhats happenin Ike! is that what happend at the last blackhawk? I was watching one of your races and I thought you got back on and finished the race? ???
well, ................................
ok, i earned myself the 'ground magnet' nik-name that weekend, cuz i was
quite 'out-o-rythm' on the first race on saturday, and went into t7 waaaay to hot, and had to grab waaay to much brake in the attempt to keep the 'rubber down'...but low sided rite outa 5th place in that race too, finished 12th, that was early saturday, and it turned out to be just a slide out (didnt hurt anything), but this one was late on sunday, and after the most races in one weekend for me (7 1/2) i was out of the running for the wood, and pretty sore, oh yeah, fire was in my eyes and steam was escaping my nose and ears, i couldnt see in my helmet, i was PISSED! ready to fight, not race with good common sense or sportsmanship, so i came off, i had another race set up, but was talked out of it, i had so many races because i wanted to try and finish in the top ten for my 1st year (but dont mention it, i know how it goes now)
i did make it to 18th overall tho, sure to drop following road-a (blown motor) (missed 4 1/2 of 7 races) but it's just nice to see the points and position, it realy comes second to the "feel of the track" ;D .... i realy didnt think that finishing 12th of 40-45 would feel so good ;D
anyway, Dawn, Gumby ;D ::) ;D ..... i say pass the hat, and if you get any extras....... remember where you got the idea ;)
http://sliderphoto.com/images/080202\images\dsc_1266.jpg
http://sliderphoto.com/images/080202\images\dsc_2051.jpg
http://www.formulausapics.com/2002WI/NRRS/ALL/images/RA0802PM_161.jpg
http://sliderphoto.com/images/080202/images/dsc_1266.jpg
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just if anyone was curious what they were
Quote
anyway 966, i walked away, boys play ruff..... and im still living a dream !!!
ike
Dood...Sorry I was looking for you after that race but I couldn't find you. Just wanted to say sorry and make sure that you were okay! Totally my bad. I wanted to get by you in the bus stop the only prob is (I totally wasn't going too fast at all) I ended up locking up my front tire and didn't want to take you out if I low sided into you. I just straighted her up and shot straight. I was hoping that you could squeek behind me. (which you almost did) Like I said sorry. I was riding my friend's bike that I've never riden before...heck it wasn't until about half thru the warm up lap I realized that it was a older suzuki...lol. It was fun tho battling!
Anyways I just wanted to touch base w/ you and say I was sorry! Crashing sucks. I couldn't remember your # I'm glad that I saw your post here. See you out there and I hope there's no hard feelings. And good luck to you.. :) :)
;D
whew...........
what a relief dan,
i did almost get under you, but you know what they say.......
and i waited (and cursed) and waited... but you never showed...
but you've more than made up for it here (tho they call em accidents for a reason, i didnt think you tried it) so all is good, and it was quit thrilling,
the way you both were walking down the strait.... i think thats what heated me up the most....i was already swearin in my helmet >:(
but we all gota start somewhere...
see ya out there again...
good sportsmansh1tz maaaan 2thumbsup :)
I try to pass wherever the oppertunity arises....inside or out. I also try and make sure I don't take someone out or 'chop them' off their line once they are committed.
But I have been purposely pushed off into the grass when passing on the outside a few times, too. Usually by much slower riders, riders that are getting lapped, so there isn't any need to 'block' me. Uncool!
Even got pushed into the grass twice passing on the outside by some jerk streetrider on an R1, at a Gateway TRACKDAY back in March. Wasn't even a race ::)
Guy was slooooow, and I was just trying to get around him so I could get up to speed, everytime he saw me he steered his bike to the edge of the track. Jerk.
Be careful guys :D
I'm going to do a 16 second lap at Blackhawk this weekend. That's right... not a 1:16.... but a 16!
QuoteI'm going to do a 16 second lap at Blackhawk this weekend. That's right... not a 1:16.... but a 16!
Let me guess, a 55 gallon drum of nitrous and a 190 rear? ???
You think robocop or maybe batman can do a 16 second lap?
QuoteI'm going to do a 16 second lap at Blackhawk this weekend. That's right... not a 1:16.... but a 16!
im thinkin........ ;D
if you bring the goldwing...........
and that 55gallons o nitrous.........we could be fairly comfy,
on this 16 seconder, yeah, we, i wanna go fast!!!