LP track days come to Midwest on Saturdays!

[Super Dave]

I do potentially agree that having a track day on Saturday might cause a track day guy to become interested in racing.

Interested in THE racing going on?  Probably not, because CCS and the Teams/riders do an awful job of promoting what needs to be promoted...riders.  Racing is made up of personalities...  Rossi, Gordon, Andretti's, etc.  Get the picture?  

So, who's gonna care?  They won't.  They'll probably do their track day and leave.  Go to Gateway for the track day on Friday.  After the day, the 90 guys that ride clear out and leave the place a ghost town.

I believe that you get practice on Saturday, regardless.  But, for like $50, you can get some extra practice.  Kind of like entering another race.  I think you get two or three extra sessions.

duc955...  The receipe was there for disaster...  Did it happen?

[Xian_13]

K3 Chris Onwiler
I don't know the guy that crashed at BHF other then taking the class with him, and seeing him that weekend of the crash. I do believe his injuries where only a few broken bones, and a punctured lung.
Not to mention one really expensive Heli bill.

Matt "chris" "chops" "mothra" "hurricane" "spider" Carr What ever you want to be called...
I 100% agree about tech issues of the bikes. I hope the tech boys have enough sense to pull all the track day guys radiator caps.

What I meant in regards to "race it on Sunday"... it's the squids that are the ones wanting the go fast bikes and gear.  By bring them closer to action, the more they may want to buy. Sponsors love people with open wallets!
 In addition to that, by having a track day on Saturday might draw more interest to the track day and hopefully curve people from jumping headfirst into racing.
There seems to be a lot of concern about the track day guys mixing it up with the fast Ams and Exs, but I firmly believe CCS is not going to let a complete newbie go out on the track with these guys. If CCS were willing to, we would have open practice every morning.
From what was written in another tread, it was stated our track time would NOT change. If that is true, then you have the option to NOT pay the extra fee for the "track day" time.

"Super" Dave
I agree CCS does an awful job of promoting track days. Till I was 90% ready to get licensed I never even knew about CCS's track days.

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

The margin for error for most experts and fast ams is very small.  Lack of practice and possible fluids from tech issues will expose this margin and seriously hurt man and machine.  This is a fact!  I enjoy criticism, so shoot!!!

Can I get a He11 Yeah?  Nice job.  It took me 2000 words to say exactly what you said in that post.  Nice..

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

I believe that you get practice on Saturday, regardless.  But, for like $50, you can get some extra practice.  Kind of like entering another race.  I think you get two or three extra sessions.

This is the other thing that irks me.  We don't get enough practice time now.  We've paid for the track with our thousands and thousands of dollars in entry fees.  If, and I definitly do mean IF, there is any extra time in the schedule, I believe that we already own it, need it, and deserve it.  Where does CCS get off selling it back to us?
I'm doing all right now, but when I started, all I had was a $500 EX500 and maybe $200 to pay for the occasional weekend.  If you get 3  five lap sessions of ultra crowded practice and 3 eight lap races for your measly beginner budget, You're only getting about 40 laps a weekend.  At Road America, you might only get 10-15 laps all weekend.  If your classes are small and you happen to run at a double points weekend or two, you might be qualified for an expert license with only 100 laps of track time under your belt!
We shouldn't have to pay extra for practice during a race weekend.  We've paid for it already.  CCS is stealing from us.

[the_weggie_man]

K3,

I was in turn 4, in the corner station, when Spence Huard crashed that last race weekend. He did not freak.  He was hit mid corner by someone trying to pass him on the inside where there was no room, stood him up and yes, he did try braking.

I sent him photos of the crash, one with the rear tire off the ground as he tried as hard as possible to slow before running off the track.

This is not in defense of a friend, I've never met the guy. Just want to set it right that he is not a squid that screwed up. He was taken out by a more "experienced" rider.   :o

[SliderPhoto]

....We shouldn't have to pay extra for practice during a race weekend.  We've paid for it already.  CCS is stealing from us.

Depends, have you done the math? Are they making a respectable profit without doing what they're proposing? Did they go to Gingerman to bring another track to the riders but need some type of measure to make it profitable until more locals or more people make the trip?

Believe me, I don't want to be on the defense here, but I don't think you're considering all the sides, just the fact that you don't want things opened to another group of riders. I understand the concerns, and I agree with you, it should be a race weekend and I doubt track-day riders will attend or even be attracted to this event.

If you're fed up and want to affect change, boycott it, speek with your $$$. Ask yourself what would happen if not one track day rider signed up and not one racer signed up for the extra time. But be careful, it might not be what you expect. Maybe in 2004 Gingerman will be a one-day event, or maybe not an event at all.

OK, so I looked at some rough numbers... Gingerman  September 28, 2002. There were approximately 335 race entries, total. In comparison, Blackhawk August 24, 2002 there were approximately 540 race entries. That's a difference of 205 race entries. How should a business make up that difference?

All I'm asking is that you look at things from all sides and if you choose to do something that you affect change in a positive way.

Going off on a tangent...  I hear ideas all the time, people with a lot of suggestions on how things should be done--a better way. Yet very rarely do I see someone step up to the plate and do something. Instead I see people tear things down rather than pitching in and building something.

I don't mean to attack you guys. And believe my, I understand your frustration, not exactly in this matter but others concerning CCS. So much to the point where I ask myself if it's worth the aggravation--life is so short.

[DRU2]

You know Jack brings up a good point.but I do agree with K3 it is like stealing.how much can they suck out of you in one day, a gt race is 70 as it is, with extra practice which in my own thoughts should come with the races that you payed for, so, one day, one race and practice is over a hundred dollars.I knew getting into this sport it was expensive but there has to be a line on how much. next thing are we going to pay for practice on Sunday too?They stated this on SAt. when will it carry over to Sun and other weekends, if they want the track day then so be it but if its on a race day then they sould have to follow the same tech  rules as the rest, slow, fast, or indifferent.

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

K3,

I was in turn 4, in the corner station, when Spence Huard crashed that last race weekend. He did not freak.  He was hit mid corner by someone trying to pass him on the inside where there was no room, stood him up and yes, he did try braking.

I sent him photos of the crash, one with the rear tire off the ground as he tried as hard as possible to slow before running off the track.

This is not in defense of a friend, I've never met the guy. Just want to set it right that he is not a squid that screwed up. He was taken out by a more "experienced" rider.   :o

Really.  That's not what I heard that day, but then again, I was talking to the "more experienced" rider and his corner worker buddy.  I have never held a high reguard for that particular guy, and as such did not mention his name. either before or now.  Do you recall that I made a clean pass between 3 and 4 down the outside?

[G 97]

In my opinion the basic concept of putting street riders with racers is a flawed and dangerous idea. As stated before even in the amateur ranks one can experience a wide variance of skill and ability that can lead to some situations.   Now take this one step further and the skill level variance gets widened even further.   One thing for certain is that a situation where something can happen is increased.   I would hope that this trend does not continue.  Leave the racing to the race organizations and in the same manner leave the track days to the track day organizations.  
It also makes me wonder why they require anyone who wants to race to complete a race school in order to obtain a race license.   Now they turn around and create a venue where they combine racers with street riders??  ::)  Why make the distinction in the first place if you just end up combining them anyway????  Bad idea.  

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

K3,

I was in turn 4, in the corner station, when Spence Huard crashed that last race weekend. He did not freak.  He was hit mid corner by someone trying to pass him on the inside where there was no room, stood him up and yes, he did try braking.

I guess I owe Spence an apology.  Sorry man.  That incident happened maybe 1 second behind me.  I took an outside line and passed on the way to the turn-in point to give Spence some room.  I guess the "Experienced Racer" who I was leading must have tried to go under us both?  Or perhaps I had already left Spence, (That would be my guess, or I would also have been caught up in the wreck.) and the other guy just stuffed him.  "Experienced Racer" told me he was hit from behind and inside at the apex.  (That wouldn't be the first time he's been caught lying.)  
Weggie man, I don't doubt you a bit.  You saw it with your own eyes.  I just feel bad that I dissed a guy who didn't deserve it.  Again, I'm sorry.

Still doesn't change my opinion about LP days, squid races, or CCS stealing our time, though...

[SliderPhoto]

Still doesn't change my opinion about LP days, squid races, or CCS stealing our time, though...

 ;D  :-*

Chris, I just wanted to say that the comment I made about people not contributing was not directed towards you at all. You are very proactive and I've seen you do a lot of good things for this sport. You've earned my respect for that!

[Super Dave]

SESSIONS FOR STREET GUYS AND RACERS ARE SEPARATE!!!! :o