LP track days come to Midwest on Saturdays!

[SliderPhoto]

SESSIONS FOR STREET GUYS AND RACERS ARE SEPARATE!!!! :o

I'm not sure about that Dave. According to Kevin's schedule:

8:00AM   Practice as follows:
· Group 1: All Expert Licensed Racers
· Group 2: All Amateur Licensed Racers  
and LP USA Advanced Riders
· Group 3: All LP USA Sport Riders
· Group 4: All LP USA Street Riders  

So AM racers and Advanced LP riders share the track. So it begs the question, how does one become an LP Advanced rider?

But in reality when 5 LP riders show up, what's going to happen? Not to mention how many races were shortened or combined last season to deal with weather?

[Super Dave]

To be "Advanced" the rider has to have a bike fully CCS prepped, including catch pan lowers.  They've got to be pretty darn good to fit in there....

This was a big concern when putting together some days with the Sport Rider Days...

As for small numbers, then you change it.  Move things around, give more time...

In reality, this is just a cure for a symptom which is the eroding of the road racer base.  Fewer riders getting involved in racing.  The average age is in the 30's now.  I have to admit that I've noticed that in my years racing too.  Fewer new, young guys.  

How to eliminate this problem.  Well, I started teaching schools, getting guys involved, helping out.  But, over time, I understand that racing is not for everyone.  You can lead them to the water....

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

;D  :-*

Chris, I just wanted to say that the comment I made about people not contributing was not directed towards you at all. You are very proactive and I've seen you do a lot of good things for this sport. You've earned my respect for that!

Well gosh, Jack!  Now I'm blushing!  Might as well make this a mutual admiration society.  I don't suppose I have to tell you again how much every racer in the MW/GL/GP area appreciates your web site, photos, results, and stories?
Face it.  We're both addicted.  Make that We're all addicted!
P.S.  Bring LOTS of calenders to the banquet.  Whatever you've got, it won't be enough.  Nice job!

[G 97]

To be "Advanced" the rider has to have a bike fully CCS prepped, including catch pan lowers.  They've got to be pretty darn good to fit in there....

This was a big concern when putting together some days with the Sport Rider Days...

As for small numbers, then you change it.  Move things around, give more time...

In reality, this is just a cure for a symptom which is the eroding of the road racer base.  Fewer riders getting involved in racing.  The average age is in the 30's now.  I have to admit that I've noticed that in my years racing too.  Fewer new, young guys.  

How to eliminate this problem.  Well, I started teaching schools, getting guys involved, helping out.  But, over time, I understand that racing is not for everyone.  You can lead them to the water....

Dave I agree on your assessment.  However, I feel the underlying concern is the combining of racers with non racers.  Taking it to another level, I have somewhat of a problem with racers who are not out there to race but are simply having fun riding around.  I suppose the race licsence and number plates allows them to brag to their buddies back home that they are racing.   ::)  I guess I thought racing was for racing and conversly track days for track riding.  I do not think that this is the best possible answer with regard to getting new blood involved in the our sport.  I also think that it is cyclical in nature and new racers will again begin to become involved.

[chris_chops]

I give up on this thread, let's give it a rest!
Let's see what it's all about and then draw our conclusions.  Right now, I think it sucks!  Maybe that will change.
Jack,
I agree about being proactive.  Personally, I go after CCS for not being concerned enough about safety.  I feel my offering of my opinion right in their face without yelling at them does some good.  Sure would be nice if all of the racers had this same spirit. Most importantly, continuing to talk among eachother will give us ideas on what we can do to get what where we want.  You do a good job of remaining fairly subjective even though you are in it for money. I will now dissappear off of this thread!  

Matt  

[SliderPhoto]

I give up on this thread, let's give it a rest!
Let's see what it's all about and then draw our conclusions.  Right now, I think it sucks!  Maybe that will change.
Jack,
I agree about being proactive.  Personally, I go after CCS for not being concerned enough about safety.  I feel my offering of my opinion right in their face without yelling at them does some good.  Sure would be nice if all of the racers had this same spirit. Most importantly, continuing to talk among eachother will give us ideas on what we can do to get what where we want.  You do a good job of remaining fairly subjective even though you are in it for money. I will now dissappear off of this thread!  

Matt  

Being a watchdog and going after someone is one thing, but what I'm saying is be constructive, offer a solution, or at the least understanding. Of course, being able to offer a solution assumes that you could actually communicate with CCS and find out what the problem is. :)

It's probably too late to steer this ship in another direction, but don't you think CCS has some magic number? Some monetary figure or ROI they need to meet on an event? if we could get  X number of racers to pre-register for Gingerman that CCS would stop this sillyness? I don't know, has anyone asked? Does that seem like a reasonable thing to do?

Message Boards are an interesting place. People grab a bone and run with it. The snow ball becomes an avalanche and before you know it, it's the end of the world. Another problem with message boards is that for a company with problems it can become an undefendable stream, something they can't cope with and instead just tuck their heads in their shells and forget it exists. And then there is no more communication.

And for me being in it for the money? That's an interesting comment. I'll admit I no longer give my photos away or do it for charity. But if I was in it  for money things would be different. It makes no busines sense to go to every Blackhawk, heck I'd be like the other guys and show up maybe one event a year spend my time shooting a vareity of groups like SBK2, go carts, or heck weddings. Ask yourself how much time it would take to design a calendar like I did, and how much it would cost to print 26 color pages. Heck ask yourself how many photos you bought from me and multiply that by the rest of the racers and that will answer your question.

[chris_chops]

I know I said I was off the thread, but one more thing.  I really like your pictures and I gotta beleive your doing them for money.  This isn't bad, free enterprise is good and I think what you are doing is awesome.  I like making money as well.  As soon as I have money again, I'm all over buying some photos.  
Exposing safety issues is new to me, and the more info and insight all of us racers share, the better.  I'm ready for the next step.  We'll talk at Knupp's pre-banquet party.  I only summarize here.

Matt

[spyderchick]

I know I said I was off the thread, but one more thing.  I really like your pictures and I gotta beleive your doing them for money.  This isn't bad, free enterprise is good and I think what you are doing is awesome.  I like making money as well.  As soon as I have money again, I'm all over buying some photos.  


Matt

Does Jack make money on this stuff? Absolutely not. I'm aware of the kind of $$$ he's invested in equipment as well as time. Travel expenses are added to that. Jack takes photos for the love of the art. He attends the races for the love of the sport and the people.
Buy pictures from Jack knowing that he's in this sport for the love, and his photos are a testament to that.

[Super Dave]

Agreed!

I think this is good to have a forum.  Ideas?  Lots of them.  CCE is has enacted a hiring freeze according to Kevin Elliott.  Now, the communication is kind of poor, and we admit anything less.

But I've known Kevin Elliott for quite a while.  And I will add this...

I don't know how he can put up with all the mayhem.  I think he must be some kind of an angel the way he can deal with everyone.  And I think most people deal with him by yelling...LOL!

Really, if not Kevin Elliott, then who?

He might make some decisions that are not popular, with me, with you, with all the other riders, with CCE, but he will at least stand by his decision and usually admit a problem if there really is one.

Yes, I think Sport Rider Days on race weekends suck...  But until it happens, I really can't say.  Will it allow us to continue racing?  Might help.  Would I like to have more people enter so that we wouldn't have this problem?  Yes...

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

Agreed!


I don't know how he can put up with all the mayhem.  I think he must be some kind of an angel the way he can deal with everyone.  And I think most people deal with him by yelling...LOL!

...

I've talked to Kevin many times.  He's been a racer, and has been involved in racing all his life.  He's one of us, really.  I imagine that he is in a sense the mouthpiece for many unpopular decisions that come down from corporate.  I wouldn't want his job.  Sure, I've wanted to smack him a time or two, but I have a lot of respect for the man.  We do need to realize that he doesn't own CCS.

[TZ_Boy]

With GLRA or was it GLLRA dead shouldn't this increase Gingerman's number's for the CCS?  I can only assume that most GLRA racer's will race with the CCS and that Gingerman will be the track they most likely attend.

[Super Dave]

WERA took up some Grattan dates from where GLRRA was.  One, I know, directly conflicts with the Gingerman CCS date.  Maybe two.