Why do we race?

[EX_#76]

I can remember what I feel to have been a turning point in motorsports.  I don't remember the year, but the series was Formula 1, and the players were Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost.  It was the final race of the season, and one of them would be champion.  Senna had a few more points before the race, but if Prost beat him to the checker, Prost would be champion.
At the green flag, Prost got the lead.  When they arrived at turn 1, Senna went straight, T-boning Prost and taking them both out of the race.  Now Senna would be crowned champion.  In my opinion, it was the lowest lhing I'd ever seen, but it seemed like that move reset the bar for doing what it takes to win.  Hell, in NASCAR they "turn" each other all the time.  That shit is plain wrong.  At least in pro racing the drivers don't have to pay for their own cars, but that kind of driving can still get someone hurt or killed.  Dale Ernhart got turned.  He died.
Club racing is supposed to be for fun.  If you crash someone to pass them, what are you costing that person?  Maybe his bike is destroyed and he can't race.  Maybe he's hurt and can't work or pay his bills.  That's racing?  THAT'S BULLSHIT!
PLAIN AND SIMPLE, BARGING YOUR WAY PAST SHOULD GET YOU SUSPENDED.  If I punch someone in the nose because they won't get out of my way at the checkout counter, I go to jail.  But if I punt someone at the track because I can't pass them otherwise, that's racing?  I don't think so.  I've been knocked down twice by overly agressive passers, and both of them later acted like I should have gotten out of the way.  Well I behaved like a citizen, but the man in me wanted to beat them with a crowbar.  WHO THE FUCK does ANYONE  think they are to knock another rider down in order to make a pass?  Hell, I SAW Steve Divver get his back broken because some asshole couldn't wait 2 seconds to make a pass, and that was in a Friday practice session!  Steve will NEVER be the same.  No $3 trophy would ever be worth that, much less some jerk trying to win a practice session.
Last summer I SAW the lead expert punt the last amateur as he lapped him.  That Am was my friend.  The crash cost him a concussion, all his bodywork, a helmet, a suit repair, and the usual footpeg, clip-on, lever, fairing bracket damage.  He was out for the weekend.  Was that expert right to punt some guy on his second race weekend ever in order to maintain his lead?  Hell, the expert wouldn't have even said shit to the amateur if I hadn't gone over and shamed him.
This level of agression is out of hand for club racing.  Nobody needs to get killed over a wood plaque.  If you think it's OK to hurt people for sport, sell your bikes and take up boxing.  Trackday ediquite my ass.  It's about behaving like a human being.

WHOOO HOOOO!!! you said it.  K3 for CCS president!!!  You have got my vote!!!

[G 97]

Please show me where anyone has ever condoned running into or  knocking down another rider to get by them.

So making a tight pass on someone is the same as T-boning them?

I fail to see what Formula One or NASCAR has anything to do with this discussion.


Why is it that none of the fast guys are taking issue with close/stuff type passing    ?

[zx10ragentorange]

Please show me where anyone has ever condoned running into or  knocking down another rider to get by them.

So making a tight pass on someone is the same as T-boning them?

I fail to see what Formula One or NASCAR has anything to do with this discussion.


Why is it that none of the fast guys are taking issue with close/stuff type passing    ?

+1 yet again. Trackdays are there to have fun and yes club racing is fun as well but some of us would like to advance past club racing to the next level and learning how to pass and be passed closely is all part of that. I like being passed closely and I have had my line changed many times and it was still a clean pass. I just wasnt fast enough at the time to not get passed and not good enough to not hold my line after being passed so that's my problem. I learn alot though every time I pass or am passed closely. Liek Garth said if you dont like the close stuff then try trackdays. ;)

[Ducmarc]

in my passed life we raced stock cars at the local track and rubbing was OK rub to hard and spin a guy they put you in the back and he kept his position i do notice its o well in the pros and us club guys. maybe  if the corner worker was given some authority to make a call we would see a meatball for that behavior . it would take someone like henry degow to realize cleaner racing would be better racing with more of use staying in it.  marc

[EX_#76]

+1 yet again. Trackdays are there to have fun and yes club racing is fun as well but some of us would like to advance past club racing to the next level and learning how to pass and be passed closely is all part of that. I like being passed closely and I have had my line changed many times and it was still a clean pass. I just wasnt fast enough at the time to not get passed and not good enough to not hold my line after being passed so that's my problem. I learn alot though every time I pass or am passed closely. Liek Garth said if you dont like the close stuff then try trackdays. ;)

Please understand that I am not typing in anger here, just discussing from my point of view.


You changing your line is your own fault (been there, done that) and is a different case.  I am referring to when someone else forces you to change your line because they have made an error, like they are sliding, or bad pass timing, or unable to keep their bike completely under control during the pass execution for what ever reason. 

I don't mind getting passed at all.  I do mind when someone stuffs it underneath me too hard and pushes wide forcing me to go wide, or has not shown me a wheel then suprises me at the apex by trying to run my knee over, or cuts across my front wheel.  Just let me know you are there I'll adjust my speed accordingly, and give both of us some extra room.  This way if something goes wrong (which is usually,but not always, accidental) there is cushion for one or both of us to correct for the mistake.  We can all survive the incident and go home in one piece. 

I know this is not your reply but I will make a point to the other fella who was asking what F1 and nascar has to do with this subject.  Chris is just extrapolating on the "win at all cost" idea that some club (And Pro) racers seem to have.  An I agree with him there is no place in racing for this sort of behavior.  Much the same way as there was no place in boxing for Tyson to bite an ear.   


One of the hardest things to learn is the sport of racing is emotional control.  Do not get upset with the racer in front of you because you can not get by!!!  It will make you more aggressive (and possibly angry)  If you are truly faster than the person in front of you, you will get by.  And if it takes you two three or more turns to do it cleanly, so be it.  If you loose time trying to complete the pass, so be it.  If you "Loose" a race because of it, so be it.  It is not worth the risk of bodily injury and or equipment (to you or the person being passed) to make a pass that you are not reasonably sure will execute cleanly.

[r1owner]

Why is it that none of the fast guys are taking issue with close/stuff type passing    ?

http://www.ccsforum.com/index.php/topic,15255.0.html

[G 97]

http://www.ccsforum.com/index.php/topic,15255.0.html

http://www.manatee.k12.fl.us/sites/elementary/palmasola/readcompex.htm

[funsizeracing]

Good call K3!

[tigerblade]

Being from Southern Illinois...I get tired of explaining to people that I roadrace --- not motocross. The whole concept of racing a motorcycle on asphalt is pretty foreign out here in the sticks.

The school secretary was surfing channels the other week and landed on Speed when there was some roadracing on and then tells me" It looked like they scraping their knees on the ground they were so close!"

I got the "crazy" look after I explained that we, in fact, drag our knees on the ground --- ON PURPOSE !

It's the same here.  I would tell someone I race and they ask about the jumps.  When I broke my shoulder blade at MAM and went to the hospital in Maryville, MO they looked at me funny when I said I was in a motorcycle accident.  I guess they were expecting blood everywhere or at least road rash but I didn't have a scratch on me. 

[G 97]

Please show me where anyone has ever condoned running into or  knocking down another rider to get by them.

So making a tight pass on someone is the same as T-boning them?

I fail to see what Formula One or NASCAR has anything to do with this discussion.


Why is it that none of the fast guys are taking issue with close/stuff type passing    ?

[barb_arah]

...because you can.  It's amazing what you guys do out there!

[HAWK]

Please show me where anyone has ever condoned running into or  knocking down another rider to get by them.

So making a tight pass on someone is the same as T-boning them?

I fail to see what Formula One or NASCAR has anything to do with this discussion.


Why is it that none of the fast guys are taking issue with close/stuff type passing    ?

I've got NO problem with a close pass and yet I'm one of the racers that someone here is referring to when he says some riders should just stay with trackdays. Why you ask? because I got all up in arms when someone came in hot under me after I had turned in and forced me to scrub 20 mph leaned over and wait while he ran almost off the outside of the track before turning. In my haste to not send us both into the sand trap I forgot to take 2 more downshifts to compensate and he got the drive to the checkers. Is that really the way you want to be passed?


K3's got a point, just take out your competition in the outhouse before the race, less messy that way.

Just for the record the other rider and I have made our peace with each other and look forward to racing together again.