Rd Amer practice July4~5

[gkotlin]

Wow.  What a thread....  I won't get into the crap about paying a membership fee and such.  I typed a reply a few days ago.  I didn't waste my time posting my opinions.

I'm a proud Nesba member.  I was scheduled for a race license school about 12 yrs ago and an accident on the street ended that.  12 years later, I find out about track days.  What a great idea!  So I buy a bike and gear and go to a race school for my first time on a track.  I decided to do a few Nesba events before I went and raced.  I found out quickly that I felt that I was not ready to race!

I spent a season doing track days and learning so much more then I ever thought was possible.  I did my first races a few weeks ago.  I had a great time!  I'll be back to do more races.  But I'll still do more track days as well.  I feel the track time and skills I learned in the past year made me a safer and much better rider.  I was amazed how many racers have no idea how to hold a line or smoothly operate the brakes and throttle let alone have any "race craft."

Who in their right mind wouldn't want to learn in a structured environment that teaches you while minimizing risk.  I couldn't have thought of a better way to learn about track riding before going racing.

Don't you think that giving street riders exposure to the track is helping the industry!  I remember trying to find race glass 12 yrs ago.  I couldn't!  Now you have choices of many brands.  The same goes for all the racing gear.

I have to believe that track days are a great way to provide exposure to the sport.  Not everyone has the skill to be an expert racer.  Not everyone has the budget, commitment or drive to be a racer at any level.  But track days allow anyone to come out and explore the potential of their bike.  It  allows them to feel like a racer for a day.  Come out to a Nesba event and see how excited new track riders are after their first day.  I see new faces at track days every week.  But last weeks new faces are this weeks new regulars.

To each their own.  See you out there.  Track day or race.  I'm just glad to be on my bike and carving corners.   

[Court Jester]

OHHHH NO NO ,my friend...


                                              IT'S DUCK SEASON!!!!!

                                      WABBIT SEASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[G 97]

(I WAS back in the late 90's when I ran times on my supersport legal bike that would have put me mid-pack in the AMA Superbike grids, but I chose not to be now).

OKey- dokie    So you were running 2:17' at RA on a 600 in the late 1990's?   Sorry dude, noway, nohow.   Even if you were running 19' to 20's which would put you squarly in the middle it would alos have put you in contention for Poll in the Supersport races.   Sorry dude, no way.  But of course there is no record so you can pull anything out.   

You seem to be confusing street bike riders with track day riders. 

In any event, Mike you have your opionions based on very little to no expereinces.  It reminds me of a group called the Flatlanders who to this day have the opinion that the world is not round but is flat.   Yes, you have an opinion.  A misinformed one, but hey it never stops you.

I am also reminded about the ESPN commercial where one guy's sport knowlege is lacking and he is always talking out of his azz about sports and making way off comments - until he gets the ESPN updater.   (Dude, you need a race updater).

As far as trackday orgs taking dates please be specific, I would like to know what dates I have been taking from race orgs.   

[Morph]

Garth - I'm willing to bet that Mike is talking about the BHF trackdays.  I was hit and almost taken out at one of those too.

To you NESBA haters - especially Mike - What is it exactly that you hate??

1 - You state that NESBA are stealing your dates - yet CCS have a weekend date at Road America and NESBA do not.

2 - You equatet Trackday riders to Street riders (a cowardly back-handed assault on our skill level) - yet whenever a NESBA CR decides to come out and race, they realize GREAT succsess (Marshall, Dustin Boyd, Chris Frye).

3 - You claim that one doesn't learn to race at a trackday - yet complain that fast Novice racers (Marshall) shouldn't be in Novice because he's turning times faster than many experts.

4 - You complain that Trackday riders get spooked in close quarters - yet you get all up in arms when Marshal talks about - God forbid - "Standing someone up."

5 - You claim that "racers" prefer "racer practice" - yet Geoff May, Andy Fauhsthaller (sp?), Mark Junge, Matt Farrell, Tony Meiring... etc don't seem to mind (I was passed by 'em all, and proud of it!).

What gives?  Am I missing something?

Also - Mike and others - Why do you think track safety has improved significantly in the past 10 years?  It isn't because racing is any more popular.  It's because the population of motorcyclists on those racetracks has increased several times over due to, GASP, trackdays!

...and I am sick and G*D-D#MN tired of being refered to, by you Mike, as a "Street Rider."

[Court Jester]

Is crack on sale???

[Court Jester]

Let's just show some love and be happy for a change.

[Morph]

Love season??

[Court Jester]

                

[tstruyk]

just cause I havent responded in awhile and its a slow day in the office...

Morph, isnt refering to street riders in your terms a little backhanded in itself? 

There is a HUGE disparity between the average "street rider" and the seasoned "track day rider"... One can also argue that the skill sets of someone who has RACED lets say... 3000 laps in a competitive environment, whether it be ex or am, will be greatly different from someone who has turned say 3000 laps in a track day environment.  Would you agree?

Racing is just... different.  Nothing can prepare you for the mental side of it except doing it.  You bring up Marshall...

Marshall rode at how many track days before he started racing?  I am guessing based on his posts on the Nesba forum it was well over 70 track days... 70 track days (might be pushing closer to 100 but I'll be conservative).  I dont care who you are, your going to figure some things out with that much seat time.  Period.  So lets take 70 track days and multiply each one my 6 sessions, and then 6 sessions by lets say 8 laps.  thats 3,360 laps around a race track... give or take.

Now compare that experience to someone of similar ability (or potential) who only races... and lets say they do no GT's, 3 sprints (8 laps) a weekend, 2 practices (8 laps each) on sat one (8 laps) on sunday.  That makes the math easy.  Assuming (just for arguments sake) that person competes in 7 events a year.  Would you say that the full time competitive racer with 10 years under his belt is more, or less prepared to race than Marshall?  Go back and read his articles... and tell me if Marshall has the same "experience" as a 10 year veteran.  Yes track days can help you find speed, but they dont teach you to race.

I think THATS the point Mike was trying to make.

I didn't get the impression that he was attacking street guys, or track day guys... but the ego's get bruised when someone "insults" your skills by calling you what you are?  He is referring to, very simply, "non racers".  Yes there are Track Day guys that can run faster lap times than half the expert grid at any given time.  But if you poll 100 racers and ask who they would rather run elbow to elbow with... I don't think its unrealistic to foresee the results skewed heavily.

Preference and necessity are 2 very different things.  I would think that Jeff, Andy, Tony and all the other names you dropped, would prefer to be in a racer only practice.  Ask some of the bottom 3rd AMA guys how cordial some of the factory guys are when you "get in their way" during practice.  Now imagine how they feel running at a TD.  The truth is, TD's offer an available, relatively inexpensive opportunity for them to get some seat time, but dont confuse that with "prefering to be there".  I dont "prefer" to go to the dentist, but I do...

Just as people are "hatin" on NESBA, you cant expect everyone to fall in love with them either.  Its a business, you are never going to keep every client happy, nor is every person you meet a potential customer.  In my business I deal with people everyday who simply "arent my client".  You dont get mad, you dont insult them, you dont call them out... you just move on.  They arent, and never will be, "your client".

To be honest I am shocked at some of the comments specifically from Garth... I would think that a person in your position would choose his comments in an open forum more carefully.  You are obviously passionate about your position, but frankly... if any of my employee's expressed their opinions in such a brash tone in an open forum that contains a connection to a LARGE portion of my customer base... they would be looking for other employment.  But its not my company... and clearly you are still employed so its really a non-issue... just sayin.

[DavidV]

just cause I havent responded in awhile and its a slow day in the office...

Morph, isnt refering to street riders in your terms a little backhanded in itself? 

There is a HUGE disparity between the average "street rider" and the seasoned "track day rider"... One can also argue that the skill sets of someone who has RACED lets say... 3000 laps in a competitive environment, whether it be ex or am, will be greatly different from someone who has turned say 3000 laps in a track day environment.  Would you agree?

Racing is just... different.  Nothing can prepare you for the mental side of it except doing it.  You bring up Marshall...

Marshall rode at how many track days before he started racing?  I am guessing based on his posts on the Nesba forum it was well over 70 track days... 70 track days (might be pushing closer to 100 but I'll be conservative).  I dont care who you are, your going to figure some things out with that much seat time.  Period.  So lets take 70 track days and multiply each one my 6 sessions, and then 6 sessions by lets say 8 laps.  thats 3,360 laps around a race track... give or take.

Now compare that experience to someone of similar ability (or potential) who only races... and lets say they do no GT's, 3 sprints (8 laps) a weekend, 2 practices (8 laps each) on sat one (8 laps) on sunday.  That makes the math easy.  Assuming (just for arguments sake) that person competes in 7 events a year.  Would you say that the full time competitive racer with 10 years under his belt is more, or less prepared to race than Marshall?  Go back and read his articles... and tell me if Marshall has the same "experience" as a 10 year veteran.  Yes track days can help you find speed, but they dont teach you to race.

I think THATS the point Mike was trying to make.

I didn’t get the impression that he was attacking street guys, or track day guys... but the ego's get bruised when someone "insults" your skills by calling you what you are?  He is referring to, very simply, "non racers".  Yes there are Track Day guys that can run faster lap times than half the expert grid at any given time.  But if you poll 100 racers and ask who they would rather run elbow to elbow with... I don’t think its unrealistic to foresee the results skewed heavily.

Preference and necessity are 2 very different things.  I would think that Jeff, Andy, Tony and all the other names you dropped, would prefer to be in a racer only practice.  Ask some of the bottom 3rd AMA guys how cordial some of the factory guys are when you "get in their way" during practice.  Now imagine how they feel running at a TD.  The truth is, TD's offer an available, relatively inexpensive opportunity for them to get some seat time, but dont confuse that with "prefering to be there".  I dont "prefer" to go to the dentist, but I do...

Just as people are "hatin" on NESBA, you cant expect everyone to fall in love with them either.  Its a business, you are never going to keep every client happy, nor is every person you meet a potential customer.  In my business I deal with people everyday who simply "arent my client".  You dont get mad, you dont insult them, you dont call them out... you just move on.  They arent, and never will be, "your client".

To be honest I am shocked at some of the comments specifically from Garth... I would think that a person in your position would choose his comments in an open forum more carefully.  You are obviously passionate about your position, but frankly... if any of my employee's expressed their opinions in such a brash tone in an open forum that contains a connection to a LARGE portion of my customer base... they would be looking for other employment.  But its not my company... and clearly you are still employed so its really a non-issue… just sayin.

Well said, I agree

[G 97]

just cause I havent responded in awhile and its a slow day in the office...

Morph, isnt refering to street riders in your terms a little backhanded in itself? 

There is a HUGE disparity between the average "street rider" and the seasoned "track day rider"... One can also argue that the skill sets of someone who has RACED lets say... 3000 laps in a competitive environment, whether it be ex or am, will be greatly different from someone who has turned say 3000 laps in a track day environment.  Would you agree?

Racing is just... different.  Nothing can prepare you for the mental side of it except doing it.  You bring up Marshall...

Marshall rode at how many track days before he started racing?  I am guessing based on his posts on the Nesba forum it was well over 70 track days... 70 track days (might be pushing closer to 100 but I'll be conservative).  I dont care who you are, your going to figure some things out with that much seat time.  Period.  So lets take 70 track days and multiply each one my 6 sessions, and then 6 sessions by lets say 8 laps.  thats 3,360 laps around a race track... give or take.

Now compare that experience to someone of similar ability (or potential) who only races... and lets say they do no GT's, 3 sprints (8 laps) a weekend, 2 practices (8 laps each) on sat one (8 laps) on sunday.  That makes the math easy.  Assuming (just for arguments sake) that person competes in 7 events a year.  Would you say that the full time competitive racer with 10 years under his belt is more, or less prepared to race than Marshall?  Go back and read his articles... and tell me if Marshall has the same "experience" as a 10 year veteran.  Yes track days can help you find speed, but they dont teach you to race.

I think THATS the point Mike was trying to make.

I didn’t get the impression that he was attacking street guys, or track day guys... but the ego's get bruised when someone "insults" your skills by calling you what you are?  He is referring to, very simply, "non racers".  Yes there are Track Day guys that can run faster lap times than half the expert grid at any given time.  But if you poll 100 racers and ask who they would rather run elbow to elbow with... I don’t think its unrealistic to foresee the results skewed heavily.

Preference and necessity are 2 very different things.  I would think that Jeff, Andy, Tony and all the other names you dropped, would prefer to be in a racer only practice.  Ask some of the bottom 3rd AMA guys how cordial some of the factory guys are when you "get in their way" during practice.  Now imagine how they feel running at a TD.  The truth is, TD's offer an available, relatively inexpensive opportunity for them to get some seat time, but dont confuse that with "prefering to be there".  I dont "prefer" to go to the dentist, but I do...

Just as people are "hatin" on NESBA, you cant expect everyone to fall in love with them either.  Its a business, you are never going to keep every client happy, nor is every person you meet a potential customer.  In my business I deal with people everyday who simply "arent my client".  You dont get mad, you dont insult them, you dont call them out... you just move on.  They arent, and never will be, "your client".

To be honest I am shocked at some of the comments specifically from Garth... I would think that a person in your position would choose his comments in an open forum more carefully.  You are obviously passionate about your position, but frankly... if any of my employee's expressed their opinions in such a brash tone in an open forum that contains a connection to a LARGE portion of my customer base... they would be looking for other employment.  But its not my company... and clearly you are still employed so its really a non-issue… just sayin.

I am shocked as well, oh the horror.  FYI racers are not my customer base.

Guys who obtain a race license and grid up once in a while and turn mid pack Intermediate times are deluding themselves into thinking that they are "racers".

Why do you care anyway?  I feel that someone like yourself taking issue with me is pretty good validation that I am doing things correctly. 

FYI FWIW, I am not an employee of NESBA.  But since making assumptions and having opinions based on miss-information seems to be the norm around here, you fit right in.

[red900]

Guys who obtain a race license and grid up once in a while and turn mid pack Intermediate times are deluding themselves into thinking that they are "racers".

Hmm, where are CSB 3:16 guys when you need them?  Well, i think it goes like this:           Amen......