Rd Amer practice July4~5

[Helmsman]

This is good reading.

[Helmsman]

Here is how i see it.  We live in a free market economy.  NESBA or who ever is completely free to host an event where ever and when ever they want to.  they are also free to charge what ever they want to.  They could charge $10,000 an event..thats their right.  If they are having no problems filling their events at their prices, then more power to them.  My personal feeling is they are over priced, as is their membership.  Their are plenty of other organizations that let me on track cheaper.  If NESBA were having problems filling their events, they would probably be willing to lower fees and memberships.  Couldn't another organization scoop up those dates next year?  I am sure they would have no problem filling their event.

If you feel NESBA's fees are to high, don't attend their events.  Its that simple.  If enough people feel that way, they will be forced to lower their costs.  Thats how a free market economy works.  No one is forcing anyone to attend their events, so don't bitch about the cost if you do go.

[Jeff]

Garth,

You can post whatever you like.  If things get out of hand we'll lock the post.  While your comment was a direct attack and will be fuel to the fire, it's your comment to make.

Here you go Garth, have it back...

Original text from Garth:

"Seriously GSXR Racer Mike you don't have a clue dude.   You think you do but you have diarrhea of the mouth and you are so WRONG on so many issues I can't even start to address them.   Where do you get all of this information with regards to track days and tracks anyway?   How do you know?  "

[Ducmarc]

+1 jeff or is it jefzz.when i decided to race agian I went to NESBA I PAID MY DUES and was able to bring me and my bike up to speed. they are good fair people  the orginal complaint was did not want to pay the dues. I PAID MY DUES. and where are you going to ride when you can"t win anymore. the dragon ... please. we race flat land down here I track dayed road atlanta (never rode elevaitons) what an experanice  then when I went to VIR I was ready  BTW Jeff May was track daying at road atlanta and he ain't slow.....  that's 108 whats the record?  

[Ducmarc]

no that was 111 this is 112

[spyderchick]

Wow, totally missed this, I've been working too hard.

Many of us can say "back in the day ...", but fact is, trackday organizers are adding options for all riders and racers. It's a reality, it's not going away, so deal. Nesba and the rest of them are fair across the board. Generally they are not taking any dates away from race orgs as I know it. (I have been known to be wrong on occasion).

So yeah, back in the day, we had no trackdays, you raced or rode on the street. If you raced, you would have to rent the track with your buddies to get track time. Guess how often that occurred?

It's a free marketplace, Tracks need to make money to stay in business, so they rent to whomever is willing to pay the fees. I think if CCS thought that doing practice/track days would make a profit, they might do it. If I remember right, the LP rider days did not work out so well for them.

Everyone take a deep breath and chill. It a damn nice day out. 

[backMARKr]

                                           UUUUMMMMMMM.............
                                          WABBIT SEASON????

Well, Mike....I would have to say..............



                                      DUCK SEASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Court Jester]

Oh not this time buddy boy. It's


                                                              WABBIT SEASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[backMARKr]

Oh not this time buddy boy. It's


                                                              WABBIT SEASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OHHHH NO NO ,my friend...


                                              IT'S DUCK SEASON!!!!!

[red900]

Good question.  How would one police that?  I suppose that riders found to be in violation of that would be placed at the back of the grid...wait...

And does that also eliminate all the licensed riders that also participate as control riders...

Hahaha, back of the grid, aint that funny....   Hmm, speaking of grids....  Let me see here, ahh yes...  MAM, a couple weeks ago...  I seem to remember seeing you on the track..  You may want to consider some trackday time with NESBA.....

[dylanfan53]

I think I'll go downstairs to Seibken's bar and have another while you guys sort this out.  I'm doing a track day tomorrow at RA....

Hey Dano...your pic is behind the bar and the barmaid put your helmet up above.  She said you're cute.

P.S. Thanks to the Bistro for the bandwidth. 

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

In my posts in this thread I stated how I felt that Track Days and Racing are really quite different in their goals, but often times they get confused as being very similar because they both utilize motorcycles on racetracks. I also stated that given a choice I believe that most racers would much rather be on the track at a 'racer only' practice day (preferably seperated Amatuer and Expert) than at a Track Day with street riders - even in the advanced group. The reason for this is because racers (especially Experts) generally have the definite advantage of having experienced close quarters racing, something most street riders have not. Years ago I personally was taken out by a street rider at a Track Day, 2 years ago at the last Track Day I did in the advanced group I was almost taken out several different times during the day by street riders (riders that were running both faster and slower than my pace that day). Thinking back on all the 'racer only' practices I have done in the last decade I have only had a few situations ever were I was almost taken out, those few times at 'racer only' practices combined together would equal about what I experienced at that 1 single Track Day. The difference in my opinion between Track Day riders and racers is generally predictability and experience with sudden situations in close proximity, sure a Track Day rider may be able to run the same lap time as an Expert racer, but who would a racer rather have near them on the track? That's certainly not meant as any type of cut-down, it's just that experience is such a huge advantage.

At no time in this entire thread have I stated that I'm faster than ANYONE (racer or track day rider), where did that came from? I have stated so many times, both here and on other sites, how I'm NOT a fast guy (I WAS back in the late 90's when I ran times on my supersport legal bike that would have put me mid-pack in the AMA Superbike grids, but I chose not to be now). How this turned into being about who's faster isn't the point of any of what I have said here.

Also, at no point did I say that the NESBA Track Day in question in this thread should be a 'racer only' practice, if someone want's to participate in that event then more power to them! All I stated in reference to that was given the choice I believe most racers would prefer to have a 'racer only' practice over a Track Day, the choice to run the NESBA day is up to each individual - pure and simple. As far as the cost, well if you want to play then you gotta pay what NESBA is asking, it's their choice to charge whatever they want.

My issue with many Track Day org's is the fact that they are relatively new, yet they are already consuming alot of the oh so valuable weekend dates. My concern is that with the rate of growth in Track Days, and the ever expanding list of Track Day org's and their need for more and more dates, that they will start to smother out actual racing within the next 5 to 10 years (based on what I have seen happen since around 2000). I know many people only look at what's in front of their face currently and don't concern themselves with what's further down the road, I'm not one of those people. I truely care about where our sport is going and what is going to be the path taking us there, I believe that by opening some more people's eyes as to what could potentially be happening, that maybe we can save our sport. With the not so distant memory of CCS almost closing it's doors it really got me thinking as to WHY this situation even exists in the 1st place for the largest motorcycle road racing organization in the U.S.A., that led me to my current opinions on the influences of too many Track Day org's.

I look at the 3-1/2 year turn over rate of racers as 'generations', currently I'm seeing about the 4th generation of CCS racers since I started racing - I certainly hope I get to see the 5th and 6th.