Radiator for 1st Gen SV superbike

[dylanfan53]

Nick,  Take a look at the first gen R6 radiators.  They're an easy fit but a much thicker core than the SV rads.  When I was running a 84hp SV back in 2000 and 2001 I had problems overheating in Texas in the summer races until I ran the R6 radiator.

That reminds me.  I have a 1st gen R6 radiator sitting on the shelf in the garage that I bought on Ebay because I was told I'd need it for my SV.   I didn't.  (Mine was also a 700cc Nick.) I don't live in TX though.

If one of you worrywarts (way to alienate the buyer, Cook) makes me a decent offer it can be yours.

But, IIRC, although it's solution I've heard about I think I also heard that there's a clearance issue that is fixed with a little gentle fine tuning with a hammer.
 

[HAWK]

Mike I understand that you are trying to help, I'm just pointing out that the SV engines head gaskets become very marginal with overbores. The stock radiator cap on an SV (most for that matter) is rated at 15 PSI which raises the boiling point of plain water to 250 deg F. Ideally I want my engine to run at 180 deg, any hotter and I start to lose power, risk detonation and finally a blown head gasket. If an engine can hold together at the higher temps then Evans coolant presents a solution for intermiten periods of high temp but in this case the SV's are known to have temp related issues at big bores. There is enough movement of the sleeve in the cylinder block and a loss of nearly 50% of the clamping area in the compression seal that things get dicey at lower temps than stock. This in addition to 25% more HP than the stock cooling system was designed to deal with.

Don, IIRC the first and second gen bikes have different hose configs, are the outlets on R6 rad close to the SV and which generation?

[dylanfan53]

Here you go.  If the moderators don't like me posting this up just let me know and we'll take it off line, but the info might be helpful to other SV owners.
It measure 15 1/2" x 10 1/4"



From my old SV notes:
Radiators:
SV
355mm x 185mm x 30mm
TLS
460mm x 205mm x 30mm
R6
390mm x 268mm x 30mm

Fan comes on at 205 F (96 C) and off at 196 F (9 C). The hot light comes on @ 239 F (115 C) and goes off at 226 F (108 C). The thermostat opens at 180 F (82 C), by way of comparison.

I think it was mentioned that if you run a F2 rad the inlet and outlet are reversed and the routing becomes a PITA to avoid rubbing.

I say again though, Bill @ Motorcycle Performance built my engine and I had no problem with the stock rad.  As I recall it ran around 200 F - 210 F for two or three seasons.  I wasn't stupid about idling forever on a hot day.

BTW, Bill bored my engine out using torque plates which reduced the chance of head gasket problems.  I've been told that if you just punch the cylinders out "a la shade tree mechanic" (french used for the ladies on the board) when the engine's apart they will distort when being retorqued as you put the engine back together which is why some have chronic head gasket problems.

[HAWK]

Bill has some other tricks to help with the head gasket issues too. best not to tempt fate though.

I just got done looking at my clearances at full compression and there just isn't room for that unit between the front tire and the cylinder head. The tire is about 1/2" from the head where that rad would be.

BTW the hose outlets are right for a 2nd gen SV which is reverse of a 1st gen.

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

Mike I understand that you are trying to help, I'm just pointing out that the SV engines head gaskets become very marginal with overbores. The stock radiator cap on an SV (most for that matter) is rated at 15 PSI which raises the boiling point of plain water to 250 deg F. Ideally I want my engine to run at 180 deg, any hotter and I start to lose power, risk detonation and finally a blown head gasket. If an engine can hold together at the higher temps then Evans coolant presents a solution for intermiten periods of high temp but in this case the SV's are known to have temp related issues at big bores. There is enough movement of the sleeve in the cylinder block and a loss of nearly 50% of the clamping area in the compression seal that things get dicey at lower temps than stock. This in addition to 25% more HP than the stock cooling system was designed to deal with.

The way you wrote that it sounds like you believe your cylinder temps are 180* when your temp guage reads 180*? That's not the case, the actual cylinder sleeve near the combustion area may be substantially hotter than that, the coolant temp is just an average temperature reading of the heat that's been able to be transfered to the coolant. Have you ever seen exhaust systems glowing before? I'm not sure if you realize how much heat it takes to get them that hot, but it's a hell of alot more than 180* (more like 1000* or more). The actual combustion is even hotter than that and the cylinder sleeve will absorb alot of that heat as well. Here's a great example, if your finger is wet and you quickly touch a hot metal surface (like a frying pan or hot exhaust) the water on your finger will briefly insulate you by creating a buffer as the water is boiled off your finger (that's the sizzling you feel as you touched the metal and a steam layer was created) yet if you did it fast enough that all the water wasn't boiled off then you probably didn't get burned - do that without water on your finger and you get burned almost instantly. Now think of this example but using your cylinders and cooling jacket, the coolant flowing around the cylinder is trying to absorb the heat, but once any portion of the cylinder gets hot enough that a localized steam layer is created that acts as an insulator which inhibits the ability of the coolant to transfer the heat away from the cylinder in that area. I'm not talking about the whole engine here, just the most intensely heated areas. Any area that has a steam layer over it will be insulated and the coolant won't actually be touching the metal at that point, cooling in this situation happens by contacting the metal that's not as hot further away from that localized hot spot by heat transfer thru the metal.

The higher the boiling point of any coolant the longer it stays in actual contact with the hottest sufaces. The higher the boiling point of any coolant the smaller the area that will have a steam layer over it once localized steam layers are created, this means that the coolant will be in actual contact with the metal closer to the hottest areas. The radiator cap raising the boiling temp of the water in the entire cooling system is accurate, but localized steam layers still form. A negative of a pressurized cooling sytem is possibility of failure somewhere in that system, whether it be the Head Gasket your focused on or the seams of the radiator, a hole somewhere, or a blown hose. Evans NPG uses no pressure at all (or very minimal) in the cooling system which means no cooling system pressure on the head gasket and if you have a hole or leak somewhere in the cooling system it's not going to be blowing coolant all over the place, instead you will just have an unpressurized leak dripping into the fluid retain lower of your bodywork. Also realize that your bikes cooling system was designed based around a less effective water based coolant, using a superior coolant makes a smaller cooling system more effective. There's just so many advantages to having an non-pressurized coolant with a higher boiling point.

As far as larger radiators go, radiators require air to pass thru them to be most effective. The closer the radiator gets to the engine the less effectiveness it will have, plus then it will transfer even more heat back to the front of the engine thru the air due to less air flow carrying that heat away.

Good luck in whatever route you choose! 

[grasshopper]

Very good info guys. I'm going to run the stock radiator and keep on eye on the temp. When I'm out on the track running race pace the coolant temp (taken from the thermostat housing) is around 200 - 205. The thing that worries me is when I bring the bike into the pits and the temp rises because the motor is not circulating coolant anymore. So I plan to have a large fan and resurrection (Gus) is going to try and rig something up so I can spin the water pump impeller to circulate the coolant while the bike is sitting to effectively cool the motor down quicker.

Last year on a 95 degree day at Autobahn I saw the temp spike up to about 250 degrees before it started going down again after I shut the bike off in the pits.

[tzracer]

Bill has some other tricks to help with the head gasket issues too. best not to tempt fate though.

I just got done looking at my clearances at full compression and there just isn't room for that unit between the front tire and the cylinder head. The tire is about 1/2" from the head where that rad would be.

BTW the hose outlets are right for a 2nd gen SV which is reverse of a 1st gen.

Don't limit yourself to the front of the engine. I toyed with the idea of mounting it in the rear subframe.

[HAWK]

Don't limit yourself to the front of the engine. I toyed with the idea of mounting it in the rear subframe.

I'm still considering the aux radiator, I meant that the R6 rad that Don has will not fit. I like the idea of the aux unit, it's small enough to fit in a number of locations.

[RSimmons]

Hey Nick, you can get Engine Ice more or less locally up at MCC. I know they have some on hand.

What about side mounted radiators like an RC 51?
or maybe one of these PWR hi-perf 2nd gen radiator?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SUZUKI-SV-650-03-08-PWR-ALUMINUM-RADIATOR-SV650-RACE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ43977QQihZ017QQitemZ270208549558QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

I know nothing about SVs. Just throwing ideas out.

[benprobst]

Very good info guys. I'm going to run the stock radiator and keep on eye on the temp. When I'm out on the track running race pace the coolant temp (taken from the thermostat housing) is around 200 - 205. The thing that worries me is when I bring the bike into the pits and the temp rises because the motor is not circulating coolant anymore. So I plan to have a large fan and resurrection (Gus) is going to try and rig something up so I can spin the water pump impeller to circulate the coolant while the bike is sitting to effectively cool the motor down quicker.

Last year on a 95 degree day at Autobahn I saw the temp spike up to about 250 degrees before it started going down again after I shut the bike off in the pits.

When our SV would come in really hot after a hot pit tech. We always started the bike after it was up on the stand and sitting for a few minutes to circulate the coolant. Also had small fans that clipped and hung on the rad and the subframe pointing at the rear cylinder, they were basically un neccesary, but there were more than a few unneccessary things on our SV .