BMW HP2 Sport

[Jon Glaefke]

Wow is someone picking on me and my 325# Pierobon. Besides having and old guy riding it it's been beat by SV's, EXs and a couple other lets just say less exotic bikes than it through the years.I read the rulebook, consulted with Eric and comply with the rules fully.Feel free to protest me any day of the week but I'm afraid it's happened and you'll lose your $$.

[MACOP1104]

Wow is someone picking on me and my 325# Pierobon. Besides having and old guy riding it it's been beat by SV's, EXs and a couple other lets just say less exotic bikes than it through the years.I read the rulebook, consulted with Eric and comply with the rules fully.Feel free to protest me any day of the week but I'm afraid it's happened and you'll lose your $$.

Not you.   Your bike has original frame and motor as required for superbike.   

[LWT Racer]

No one's picking on you. 

[Jon Glaefke]

That's good because 11:30 at night on a school night I get really sensitive. I'm just looking for some good racing wherever I can find it and by God if it's half way across the universe, I'm there. See you guys in Jersey

[apriliaman]

All I want to know does it have a VIN number on the frame that is it :-) not a frame ID number.My bikes have VIN numbers on them and I can put tags on them and drive them down the road.Like that.
http://www.ducati.ms/forums/attachments/sport-classic/68109d1273721018-paul-smart-questions-vin.jpg




http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh88/funbiz99/d-dtracker%20dtr250/20130411_100953.jpg

[Jon Glaefke]

The Pierobon indeed does have a vin number stamped into the frame, can and has been registered as a streetbike and as a matter a fact I have a brochure for your inspection on the streetbike sold throughout Europe and available in the US. I have given Eric the last three years all documentation and letters from Massimo Pierobon that certifies this bike as available, manufactured in large enough numbers to satisfy it's competition here.
   I have to again defer you to Eric and I will comply with his decision for or against your claim. Frankly, if I or Shane Turpin had just shown up at Daytona with the bikes without being proactive in making the CCS aware of what they were, I would expect to be protested but as we both along with Boulder Motorsports and Massimo Pierobon were proactive in providing the necessary documentation I have to ask why four years after we first showed up why this argument still rages on? 

[LWT Racer]

No one is saying that your bike isn't legal for LWTSBK.   You don't need to defend yourself.


Just saying it's bullsh1t.   

[apriliaman]

Don't worry in almost 800 races I did I never protested anyone.

[MACOP1104]

I have to ask why four years after we first showed up why this argument still rages on? 

At one time, the LW class was primarily FZR400s, EX500s, and Honda Hawks.  Budget bikes that for the most part were race prepped for a moderate (affordable) price by racers who tended to be a bit older, weren't too fond of dicing it up in the 4 cylinder classes, and didn't have a ton of cash to spend on their racing program.  There were some specials out there that made big horsepower.  Frank Strohman had EX500s and Matt Blashfield had Honda Hawks built to the max making 85ish hp.   In 1999, the SV650 showed up with contingency and the Suzuki Cup.   Obviously the SV became the bike to have for supersport (superstock).  There were some big air cooled Ducatis around but they were in the open lightweight classes (heavyweight sportsman?).   These bikes were usually 1990s air cooled Ducati 750s and 900s with superbike motors.  I'm not sure when it happened (2003-2005?) but Ducati updated their air cooled bikes and came out with the 800 and 1000DS with a contingency program and a race prepped bike from the dealer.  The bike was allowed into LW classes (where else would it go?)  and now you had 75-80 hp supersport SV650s competing against 88-94 hp supersport Ducati 1000s.  You can say it's the next step in the evolution of the LW bikes but it was also a jump in cost that the budget lightweight racer had to absorb to be competitive.   I think the 1000DS was around 10 grand and a SV was around 6 grand.  So now, the "specials" are allowed in LW classes (Bimota DB5R, Peirobon, hybrid Ducatis).  The class that consisted of budget racers who could be competitive on a $3000-5000 used race bike just got blown wide open.   Now, If you set aside rider skill, you have to spend no less than 20-25 grand for a competitive bike in lightweight classes.  It's cheaper to race a 600 than it is to race a competitive LW bike in CCS.  The foundation I'm laying is that the LW class was originally made up of a bunch of budget racers, and in my opinion, that's where the animosity toward the exotic bikes comes from. 

[Gino230]

You may have a point, however ALL OF CLUB RACING "was originally was made up of a bunch of budget racers." Over the 10 year period you describe, all the bikes (and racing, for that matter) have gotten more expensive, so a dollar comparison over a 15 year period isn't really accurate.

When I started racing CCS 15 years ago, you could buy an inexpensive bike like you described (I had a $2,500 1989 Ducati 750 Sport) and be competitive as an amateur. But you knew you were just racing to improve with a small chance of winning because you were on older machinery.

You can still buy a $3-5000 race bike and be competitive in LW. But no matter the class, you're probably not going to win on an older, inexpensive racebike.

As I said, would you expect to show up in AMA with a 10 year old GSXR and be able to win?

And BTW, there is a dedicated class for the older machines, it's Ultra Light Superbike and the "exotics" are not allowed. So you have a class specifically for the older, less expensive, outdated LW machines and still there is moaning and groaning.

Even after ALL OF THE ABOVE, The 10 year old SV still wins the majority of the LW races nationwide. Makes me think that the guys who are going to win, will win regardless, exotic bike or not.

[LWT Racer]

. But no matter the class, you're probably not going to win on an older, inexpensive racebike.

.
The 10 year old SV still wins the majority of the LW races nationwide.

So you're saying there's a chance.

[MACOP1104]

Even after ALL OF THE ABOVE, The 10 year old SV still wins the majority of the LW races nationwide. Makes me think that the guys who are going to win, will win regardless, exotic bike or not.

Rider ability (talent) has nothing to do with the eligibility of machinery in a class.

  Is there still such a thing as performance indexing?  The only thing I would ask for is the Pierobon and the Bimota to be performance indexed out of LWSB.  Too much machinery for the class.  They could still run LWGP, GTL, LWF40, Thunderbike, Team Challenge.   By the rules, the hybrids aren't allowed to run in LWSS and LWSB so they're not an issue. 

Yes, I'm aware of ULWSB.  It's specifically there for machines that can't run with the 1100cc air cooled bikes.