BMW HP2 Sport

[Bitgeist Racing 696]

I noticed that the HP2 sport is specifically excluded from several if not all classes it technically meets the spec requirements for. Can someone please explain to me why this is the case? I was thinking about picking one up to race in LW: SS, SP, GP, F40 ,and thunder bike but apparently its illegal in all those classes. Is it really that much faster than an NCR tricked DB5? I missed any discussions about when these rukes were passed and dont see any debates or explanations in this forum, just some mentions that it's excluded. Can someone please help shed some light. Thank you.

[Dragon]

Have you compared the specs of the HP2 to all the other bikes are allowed in the light weight class? They speak for themselves. The HP2 Has the same horsepower as most if not all middleweight bikes. Just because it's air cooled doesn't make it fair. Why would you want to spend $15,000 to race a air cooled shaft driven bike anyways?

[benprobst]

Have you compared the specs of the HP2 to all the other bikes are allowed in the light weight class? They speak for themselves. The HP2 Has the same horsepower as most if not all middleweight bikes. Just because it's air cooled doesn't make it fair. Why would you want to spend $15,000 to race a air cooled shaft driven bike anyways?

Maybe he doesn't want to spend 50,000 dollars to race an air cooled chain driven bike?

[roadracer162]

I am prefacing my statement with the intent that they are meant with conversation sake as the focus. From the philosophical side, racing is not about being fair but it is a show of competition. Yes you can race on a fair platform and that is the premise of spec racing.

There are subjective rational when determining rules such as this bike is faster than that bike. Another would be the individual's idea of what a lightweight bike should be. The BMW HP2 although technically would fit within the lightweight rules would be the king of the class(here again subjective in nature)

The objective rational is addressed by the current rules as in the size limitation of an engine design. And inline liquid cooled 4 is limited to 560cc, where the v twin liquid cooled is limited to 800cc unless it is of Desmodromic valve actuation which is not allowed whatsoever. Yes there are more examples of the objective rational but in order to save time and your reading attention I won't delve into them.

Now the play on horsepower leads us to use both the objective and subjective reasoning. Since the BMW HP2 is reported to possess 130bhp it is the killer of the class. There is at least one air cooled Ducati racing with 140 rwhp racing amongst us.

I must also make the distinction that the lightweight class is further broken down to Super sport, Super bike, Grand Prix, and GT. You could as well make the same distinction of the sportsman class of LW Formula 40, MW Formula 40 and F40.

It seems to me the rules are comprised of what the majority of competitors want and not what is fair. The end result for the organization is the monetary amounts the rules can bring in. If you are in the minority of owner/racer like I typically am then you are Out of luck. I have heard so many times go buy a competitive bike and it will be fair. I for one race what I can. I am not privy to dropping $23k(after all the race set up) on a new bike. Would it even be worth it purchasing a five year old for $12k?

So I race on the old bikes in the class that I can. There seems to be no rhyme or reason for the rules but that's what they are. I race within them or take on the alternative which is not to race at all.

[roadracer162]

Great wisdom Ben. I see your little smirk. Lol

[Dragon]

Won't change the fact that CCS doesn't allow it as a LW and I still don't understand why anyone would race a shaft driven bike?

[roadracer162]

Curious, what's wrong with a shaft driven bike? I ask because I don't change the gearing on my bikes in typical fashion and only once tried something a little difference which didn't improve times or acceleration. I typically use stock gearing and run 1st to 5th on most tracks except for Daytona and Roebling

[Bitgeist Racing 696]

Have you compared the specs of the HP2 to all the other bikes are allowed in the light weight class? They speak for themselves. The HP2 Has the same horsepower as most if not all middleweight bikes. Just because it's air cooled doesn't make it fair. Why would you want to spend $15,000 to race a air cooled shaft driven bike anyways?

Thank you for your input. To answer your questions. I have compared the performance figures and a decked DB5 has equal or better power to weight ratio as the HP2, but is allowed. I am merely wondering why the HP2 is specifically excluded when it meets every single technical criteria outlined in the rules. If we decide that there should be an HP limit then we should specify that in the rules. If we decide that there needs to be total cost limit then it should be in the rules. I want to race an HP2 specifically because it is a high performance air cooled BMW Twin. I race the S1000RR and would like to compete in other classes on a very different machine and not just a slower bike.

[Cowboy 6]

Maybe the real question is, "why is the DB5 allowed?"

[Bitgeist Racing 696]

Maybe the real question is, "why is the DB5 allowed?"

That is an easy one to answer. Because it complies with the rules. Someone said above that the HP2 would be "the killer of the class", meaning it would be faster than everything else. I do not see how this should exclude a motorcycle from a class. If you exclude the fastest legal bike from the class every year then in a few years you end up with a spec class for whatever was the slowest bike in that class.

[apriliaman]

How about why is the Pierobon X60R  allowed?It is 80-100lbs lighter then the HP2 with the same HP.It is lighter then every 600 out there also.It is around 300lbs.

[Dragon]

Everyone is racing a SV or DUC in LW. That's what the class was designed for and that's what everyone pays CCS to do. If you take away the competition and fun in club racing then you take away people who are going to pay to race. Lets not forget that these rules were in put into effect long before the hp2 was even in development. It's the only bike in its class. If all the other companies created similar production bikes then I'm sure a class would be created for them.  And as for shaft driven bikes, if you haven't ridden one then try it before you buy one. They put major flex on the rear shock creating instability under excelleration and decelleratio. That's not something you want going into or coming out of a turn.