National/ Pro Riders Stealing the Ex Championsh

[fourandsix]

This gets more interesting all the time , I wonder what would happen if after every combined am/ex race the slow experts would only get scored by the combined results. Lets say the winner was an expert and the next 3 guys across the line were amatuers then 5th place was an expert. We should score him as 5th not 2nd expert as he didn't deserve the 2nd place as he didn't earn it. Just a thought!

Now as far as what rosno said about fast racers not always knowing how to set up a bike he was 100% correct  as some of them don't , that is why the factories spend ton's of money on data ac. I know matt and larry personally and also barney, i have the utmost respect at what they have accomplished in their careers but i think they should go play in the bigger sandbox called AMA . I know if they could afford it they would. i think if you asked them all point blank they would also agree that even after racing all these years they still don't have all the answers on set up.

[r6_philly]

I don't know about scoring EX's on combined results because now you going to have the slower EX's racing the AM's. And they are not technially in the same race, only sharing the track at the same time.

I believe the pro privateer guys stay in FUSA instead of going to the sandbox is because they would make more money staying in FUSA, and their sponsors get more exposure. If kneedraggers had raced AMA and finished 8th - 15th every weekend, they would not get as much press if they finish 1st and 2nd every weekend in FUSA, and cost lost more money. So what makes more sense is to stay in FUSA.

The root of the evil here is the AMA/Factory set up. Without the factory teams, if only we had wide spread factory support teams, it would change everything from AMA Superbike to FUSA. Then Pro's can actually go be competitive pros in the big box, and the club guys can have their moments in the club racing. As it stands there is no benefit other than personal achievement to race AMA for most guys. And after you been racing for decade or so, personal achievement means a lot less for someone like me. So while I am a relatively slow ex next year, I would love to go race AMA because of personal reasons.

By the way, need some motor work done for a 03 R6, who should I email? got some questions

[Mark Bernard]

I also don't like powder puff classes and I don't like the over 40 classes.  It's giving people something they can't earn in the real world or in this case the real race classes.  

What Kevin said....Piiiifffttttt!  :P :P :P

[Super Dave]

I think you're far off the mark with your example, I won't comment on the cheap shot - other than to say that guy has been banged around pretty hard at times in his career but he's had the fortitude to gather himself back up and still compete at a high level....

I disagree with you a bit here, Dave. Matt, Worm and Barney are some of the nicest guys you'll ever meet.

Every one of the three guys I mentioned has worked his butt off and made supreme sacrifices to get where they are.

Frank, these are the points I was making.  You are taking me a bit out of context.  Riders at the upper level generally have spent a whole lot of time getting there.  And Lord yes, Matt has been absolutely pounded over the years.  Doesn't quit.  

I never used Barney, Matt, or Pegram as examples of guys who weren't deserving.  Again, you're getting me way out of text.

However, there are riders that do not include many of the ones that you give that do have the attutude that some were talking about.  They are still nice guys, but sometimes others expectations of those differ from reality.  There are times when riders ARE out of their element or they have work that HAS to be done.

[Super Dave]

You can take that to the bank. No disrespect intended, but I find the earlier reply bragging about keeping up with Pegram at Daytona to be almost delusional. If you were hanging with him it was because he wanted you to. Wake up.

...snip...

Um, Frank, I'm confused here....

I wasn't at Daytona, so I wouldn't have bragged about keeping up.  You were quoting me.... ???

[Super Dave]

I believe the pro privateer guys stay in FUSA instead of going to the sandbox is because they would make more money staying in FUSA, and their sponsors get more exposure. If kneedraggers had raced AMA and finished 8th - 15th every weekend, they would not get as much press if they finish 1st and 2nd every weekend in FUSA, and cost lost more money. So what makes more sense is to stay in FUSA.

The root of the evil here is the AMA/Factory set up. Without the factory teams, if only we had wide spread factory support teams, it would change everything from AMA Superbike to FUSA. Then Pro's can actually go be competitive pros in the big box, and the club guys can have their moments in the club racing. As it stands there is no benefit other than personal achievement to race AMA for most guys. And after you been racing for decade or so, personal achievement means a lot less for someone like me. So while I am a relatively slow ex next year, I would love to go race AMA because of personal reasons.

By the way, need some motor work done for a 03 R6, who should I email? got some questions

Yeah, Kneedraggers was doing well.  There is some interest from the manufacturers in "Grand National" type racing with combined points from dirt track and road racing.  

The manufacture supported/manufacturer rules AMA program is probably the root of most of the problems.  I blew away a long tirade about the whole thing and a comparison to NASCAR...a successful program with lots of successful teams, drivers, and corporations with pretty decent purses ($40k for guys at the bottom) and multi-million dollar championship bonuses from series sponsors.

But back to the club racing thing...I guess what do you do?  Do you kick someone out as an expert after they've done it for so long?  And where would someone go after that?  What would be the criteria?  If they attain a  lap time that is in the 97th percentile, do we kick them out and make them go "pro"?  

Got to remember that this is still competition.  

And if you want to talk to Jim about motors and suspension and all, I'd call him.  Probably easier.  He'll give you really straight forward answers on what you need and what you don't.  He will be honest.

847.763.9900

[r6_philly]

Um, Frank, I'm confused here....

I wasn't at Daytona, so I wouldn't have bragged about keeping up.  You were quoting me.... ???

Larry Pegram was out in practice on a yellow plated duc leading Eanes around showing him the fast way around the track, I guess around 2:00 range. Benji kept up and mentioned it in the tread, and Frank thought it was braggin

[lil_thorny]

no Frank, wasn't bragging...practice is practice. I never said that I passed him, just caught him in the infield(not knowing that it was Larry Pegram) Besides, I'm a first year Amateur and i race and practice with realistic expectations. Next year I will
have those same realistic expectations...only it will be to beat people on inferior equipment. I'll let my riding "wake people up"  So bring it!!! ;D ;D ;D

Dafan,
I'm not sure ....I want to be there @ Daytona but
not sure if it is in the budget. I'm hopeful for FUSA
as well. We'll see... gotta beat Super Dave first. ;D
Legitimately of course, he likes to slow down and let his children go by for the wins. Silly man!!!

The Pompous Amateur who so totally smoked Larry Pegram@ Daytona!!! ;)

Benji.

[Peanut]

As it's been said the AMA/Factory set up is really the main problem.  How is it to feel that your possibly to fast for reg "club" races but don't have and probably won't get, the support to be competitive on the AMA stage?  And with the AMA payout being so low in comparison to your expenses just to race, it's got to be a tough position to be in.

What do you do?  If AMA had better purses and more factory and/or fortune 500 type support those guys would beable to make a decent living congruent with their talent.  Not to mention the racing would be better anyway.  At that level does Hacking really have anymore talent than Barney?  Zemke more than Acree?  The list goes on and on.

I still don't mind racing with these guys because I would rather compete on the highest level if possible.  These guys need to make a living and if coming and racing against us partime along with the AMA guys parttime is how they need to do it, then so be it.  It's understandable and until the "pros" get a blue plate or something to signify a different level, then they should race wherever they need too to live their dream also.

[Super Dave]

We'll see... gotta beat Super Dave first. ;D
Legitimately of course, he likes to slow down and let his children go by for the wins. Silly man!!!

LOL, that was funny.  I just wanted to see something, and so a wave by was the thing to do.  Got in info that I wanted, and then was able to relay that to the rider. ;D

 Hey, I've done this long enough that I don't think I have anything to prove anymore.  Still can go fast on my meger budget.  Benji...you still make way more money that I do.  Equipment won't necessarily win races.  But setup and being sneaky sure will.  A reasonable bike is just fine.

And I think peanut has it right....

I still don't mind racing with these guys because I would rather compete on the highest level if possible.  These guys need to make a living and if coming and racing against us partime along with the AMA guys parttime is how they need to do it, then so be it.

[Frank_Angel]

Um, Frank, I'm confused here....

I wasn't at Daytona, so I wouldn't have bragged about keeping up.  You were quoting me.... ???

No, sorry to mislead. Included it in my reply to you, but was referring to Benji, and he's already enlightened me as to what he meant. Anyway, apologize for misinterpreting anyone - that's the problem with quick written communication on a forum instead of in person.

Peanut is close IMHO - really need bigger purses and more corporate sponsorship in the AMA to keep those guys in that sandbox. That's not going to happen in a big way as long as the factory teams have the advantage over everyone else. But, the gap is narrowing somewhat as the equipment off the showroom floor gets better and better.

[lil_thorny]

Dave, I like the sneaky Pete. Oh, what you think that because I'm like a doctor and stuff that I make lots of money or something? ;) I'm still broke!

MightyThorny.