National/ Pro Riders Stealing the Ex Championsh

[Bernie]

MightyThorny.

Cool.  This thread would be way more interesting if Bryan was chiming in.

[lil_thorny]

Do they have the internet in racer Heaven?
I know that Bryan is just itching to chime in............
I can only imagine the things he'd be saying right now.

Bryan, if you can read this, we miss you brotha!!!

lil_thorny. 8) ;D ;)

[r6_philly]

you know, not a day has past by where I don't think about bryan. It is hard to take in that such a vibrant personality is gone, forever.

It also gives me chill bumps every time I think about it. My bike died around the same place where he fell, and I was just lucky I put a little distance between me and the person behind me, and I immediately pulled below the apron. I still thought I was going to get hit.

Then I found out someone did get hit. I feel fortunate, in a very unlucky year, I fell fortunate. but I also feel very sad that Bryan didn't catch the break that I did.

For that, I am going to put a "944" on my race bikes forever I race. And the first lap I take at daytona next year, will be for you

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

 Have you ever raced Mongo?  Have you ever been punted off the track by a pro?  How did you like it?

Bump...

[mmills416]

Ok I cant take it anymore.  I knew Mighty Quack pretty well.  Hell I raced him all year and all he wanted to do was beat me.  Ask his sister and wife.  I think I can speak for him a little.  I talked to him almost daily.  You guys are a bunch of cry babies.  WHITE PLATE =PRO period.  Braney comes and races at the local CCS races and it is awsome to watch and LEARN.  As an expert you can qualify for a AMA race if you are fast enough.  FUSA let Yellow Plates race against the "PROS" in thunberbike.  Got to see barney do some really cool sh*t in warmups.  The Factory Pro TEAMS will never race a ROC or a GNF because it doesn't make sense $ wise.  Yosh was there testing on tuesday before the ROC.  At a CCS race or the ROC  Rapp, Barney, Pegram, Kerns, Ciccotto, Chanlder, or whoever pay the same entry as you and me and starts from a grid postion and starts at the same green flag as all of us.  If they beat us there are faster, because they worked to get there its as simple as that.  Barney ran 57's in qualifing on a 92 f2, and I dont what to hear it I saw the whole thing from the start a week before the ROC.  It was no factory effort or Prieto and Barney puttin lots $ into the bike they didn't even check the vavles.  It passed the 3.5 to 1 ratio like everyboby else.  I think there was only a hand full of CCS experts going that fast on GSXR 1000's.  The AMA and FUSA regulars are faster and any of us can be to if we work hard enongh and push our "survival instint" as far as they do.
It did blow when Rapp didn't pick up his throphy, but He could have had a flight out he was there since wednessday TEACHING at Team Hammer.  Only he knows what the national championship mean to him.  
I normally don't chime in but I hope It would have made Bryan Proud.  Sorry if I offended anyone, wait no I'm not!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D

[Super Dave]

Oh, what you think that because I'm like a doctor and stuff that I make lots of money or something? ;) I'm still broke!

MightyThorny.

Well, yeah...  Wanna compare tax returns...

But you S U C K anyway...I know...I got to teach you stuff...BAAAMMMM!


 :P :P :P

 ;D 8) ;D

[Mongo]

Bump...

I'm kind of busy running our race where we let all the pros win everything that the club racers are deserving of.

Anyway, no, I've never raced, I've never been punted off the track by a "Pro".   I don't need to have raced to understand tis issue sorry, it's really very simple - you want championships that cannot be won by riders faster than you.  Every post has said this loud and clear.  Cool, if that's the way you feel so be it.  I disagree.

Just for fun I'll give you a count right now of how many Pros will punt any of the other 400+ riders off the track this week - zero.  The riders know the level of competition that they'll encounter with the backmarkers and being good riders act accordingly.  Besides that - what the heck does that have to do with anything anyway?  Now you want us to make rules based on the slowest riders out there?

[r6_philly]

I don't need to have raced to understand tis issue sorry, it's really very simple - you want championships that cannot be won by riders faster than you.  Every post has said this loud and clear.  Cool, if that's the way you feel so be it.  I disagree.

Mongo, you are SADLY mistaken. Not EVERY post has said this loud and clear. May I suggest you read each and every post WITHOUT prejudice

I don't have a problem with faster riders winning championships, even pro's.

I have a problem having the championship awarded to people who have NO regular involvement during the season. Just having a license does not indicate involvement. This is club racing, NOT the olympics. Everyone who participated in the series through the season should have the chance to go for a bigger piece of the pie. I don't like the fast guys that just show up only at ROC just as much as the slower guys. I think the ROC should be a price for regular competitors.

No limitation on who can enter the series, I just want to see this price only available to everyone who has contributed to, and committed to the series.

This is NOT just a sport, it is also a business (especially in CCS's case). I want the regular customers taken care of more than just the one off guys, and have some preferencial treatment to the guys who committed to the series. I could just hang around summit point and VIR and spend my money both with WERA and CCS, but I chose to race CCS, and there are others who has followed the series when they didn't want to, all in the name of the region. And I would like CCS ROC to be that, for CCS racers only, but only CCS racers who has been racing with CCS, not just a license holder. Having a license means you are qualified to race, does not mean that you actually race with us.

That's it. I couldn't care less who is fast, who is slow, who has more money, who is factory based, who takes the purse. I just want the price to go to regular participants. Playoff's in other entertainment/sports are only available to teams/people who has competed during the season. So should the finals and national championships.

If that is not the intend, if ROC is supposed to be a FREE-FOR-ALL. then DON'T connnect it with regular season. DON'T grid based on regional standings. Qualify, or based on pre-entry. So I don't have to spend money to race during the year for a grid spot, and only to race wiht people who hasn't raced all year. It is not fair.

Not about fast or slow, I spent my money with CCS and I want some damn exclusivity. Thats all. Racing a pro would be GREAT for fun, but I don't think it belong at the ROC. On sunday, they can race FUSA, they can take all the money.

We are only talking about the pro's because slower guy wouldn't be able to over come the grid they get. So we are not only having problem with others who beat us. It is about the philosophy ok?

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

Anyway, no, I've never raced, I've never been punted off the track by a "Pro".   I don't need to have raced to understand tis issue sorry, it's really very simple - you want championships that cannot be won by riders faster than you.  Every post has said this loud and clear.  Cool, if that's the way you feel so be it.  I disagree.

I must admit, I'm getting a little annoyed with you and your condiscending attitude.  Now it comes out that you've never raced, yet you come off as the grand authority on how racers think.  I saw a tee-shirt once that said, "Better a racer for a moment than a spectator for life."  I guess we now know where you stand.
I have won eight regional championships, and took a fifth at the ROC.  I have stated continuiously in my posts that there are local experts who can smoke me for now, and I'm OK with that.  Read the posts again if you think I'm lying.
I have complained about pros taking championships from the club racers who are better than me.  Is that whining that I should be the champion?  Only in your world.  
I will admit that it is a clever ploy on your part to try and make it all about me.    That way you don't have to give a rational reply to the points that I bring up.  This is a common practice in debate.  When you realize that you can't outreason your opponent, you attack him personally instead and hope he'll give up.  Sometimes effective, but in reality it's a sign of weakness.
 
Pros race for a living.  They get factory support.  They have sponsorship that club racers can only dream of.  They've earned it.  More power to them.  But when they come steal a club racing championship just to take the purse money, that is low. They've already been there and done that.  They should stay away from the club racing championship because they are pros.  I should stay away from the amateur classes because I am an expert.
Club level experts realize that not every rider on the track can run their pace.  They cut the slower guys a few inches of room, because as the race director says during the riders meeting at every CLUB RACE, "We've all got to go to work on Monday morning."  Pros, from what I've seen, think that every inch of the track is their God-given property, and anyone who ventures into their chosen line will be hit.  (Then berated for getting in the way, even though it is the overtaking rider's responsibility to pass safely.)  Fifteen years of corner working and five years of racing have not shown me otherwise.  If that is how you must ride to be a pro, fine.  Go race pro.
This isn't rocket science.  Every other form of motorsport has multiple levels.  Motorcycle racing has two, beginner or pro.  Covers a wide spectrum of skill, doesn't it?  Get your licence, race a bunch of classes at one poorly-attended double points weekend, earn 500 points, and you're ready to take on the guys who race for a living.  Is everybody else wrong?  If an expert wants to try racing with the pros, let them go to a pro race.  Otherwise, keep the pros in the pro races.
I suppose that it's only fair to let the pros poach the Suzuki or Yamaha money at a club race.  They still have to beat the local fast experts, and that's often harder said than done.  But at the ROC or GNF, pro poachers should be banned.  They didn't spend a whole year running the class at the regional level, so they have no right to vie for the national championship.  Can a football team just show up at the Super Bowl and play for the championship?  No.  The right to compete for a championship is earned throughout the season.
Now then.  Would you care to actually address my points in an adult fasion, or would you prefer to just continue to insult me?

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

Club level experts realize that not every rider on the track can run their pace.  They cut the slower guys a few inches of room, because as the race director says during the riders meeting at every CLUB RACE, "We've all got to go to work on Monday morning."  Pros, from what I've seen, think that every inch of the track is their God-given property, and anyone who ventures into their chosen line will be hit.  (Then berated for getting in the way, even though it is the overtaking rider's responsibility to pass safely.

     I had the unfortunate situation of being the recipient of a Pro's arrogance at Road America this year. During a warm-up lap this guy came by me as we left the carousel, looked over at me, lifted a wheely, and cut right across my front wheel almost causing me to crash. After his display of superiority he then looked back to see if I was still on the track. What a jerk! It still kinda pisses me off that a couple corner workers watched the whole thing happen and nothing was done about it, undoubtably preferential treatment due to his 'status'!

[Super Dave]

During a warm-up lap this guy came by me as we left the carousel, looked over at me, lifted a wheely,...What a jerk! It still kinda pisses me off that a couple corner workers watched the whole thing happen and nothing was done about it, undoubtably preferential treatment due to his 'status'!

Ok, I'll chime in on this.

I've seen lots of wheelies in CCS events.  Although I saw them, and I felt they were intentional, I have never seen them called in for an infraction.  So, first, a corner worker would have to see it, then call it in.  The worker would have to know that a wheelie is strictly forbidden too.  I kind of doubt that this is about "status".  I think the corner workers root for the everyday guys, too.  K3, can you comment?

[Super Dave]

I don't have a problem with faster riders winning championships, even pro's.

I have a problem having the championship awarded to people who have NO regular involvement during the season.

I want the regular customers taken care of more than just the one off guys, and have some preferencial treatment to the guys who committed to the series.

Playoff's in other entertainment/sports are only available to teams/people who has competed during the season. So should the finals and national championships.

ROC grids are based on points in your region.  Are post entries allowed at ROC?  Used to be pre entry only, but I though they allowed some post recently.  Didn't keep track of this years stuff.

Anyway, grids...that's the reward at ROC for the regular series competitors.

Other sports usually have "wild cards" or lower seeds that can actually make the final or even win.

As for ROC and Pro riders, they are experts.  I don't see any experts that ran at Daytona complaining about the "pro" guys.  If we're using Steve Rapp as the whipping boy for pros, yeah, what he did was, as fourandsix said, classless.  That's about it.  Rapp started from the back.  And so did Jesse Janisch, since he was unable to follow the series because he just turned 16.

Bumping...let's go through this topic.  As a rider's speed increases on the track, lap times, the lines that they follow will change.  So, a rider that is faster when compared to a rider that is slower might have converging lines.  The bumps are not intenational, but when closing speeds are very very fast, they might be unavoidable.  One thing you learn in racing something like AMA Supersport is that a bump and a nudge is no big deal.  Yes, it's a bit nerve racking the first time it happens, but it usually isn't a problem.